 Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney speaks during the first 2012 Republican presidential candidates' debate in Manchester, New Hampshire June 13, 2011. Tricia Erickson: 'An indoctrinated Mormon should never be elected as President'ONLY ON THE BLOG: Answering today’s OFF-SET questions is Tricia Erickson, author of the new book,"Can Mitt Romney Serve Two Masters? The Mormon Church Versus The Office Of The Presidency of the United States of America."  She runs a communications company, Crisis Management, Incorporated and Angel Pictures & Publicity, a political and entertainment publicity and consulting company that promotes conservative causes and personalities. (EDITOR'S NOTE: Due to the provocative–and in some cases, inflammatory– nature of Erickson's answers, we asked for a response from Mormon historian Richard Bushman, the Howard W. Hunter Visiting Professor of Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University in California. His remarks follow the answers below, along with reactions from Corey P. Saylor, National Legislative Director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations and Ahmed M. Rehab, Executive Director, CAIR-Chicago.) You ask, “Can Mitt Romney serve two masters?” He was governor of Massachusetts from 2003 – 2007 and his belief in Mormonism seems to have only served him well. Why would this be different if he were elected president? Let me say that my book is divided in to two parts. Part I covers the spiritual aspect. Part II covers the political. Both parts are important when considering voting for this possible front runner. To answer the above question, I would not say that Mr. Romney’s beliefs served him well during his governorship except in the case that Mormons are taught to shine a light on Mormonism in a way that would draw converts to the church, and if Mr. Romney’s office helped to promote Mormonism, this was a win/win.  The Mormon Church enjoyed the representation of having another public official under its belt and Mitt Romney became a shining example of Mormonism, which served to normalize the Church and its bizarre secret ceremonies, rituals and beliefs, to the American public. There’s a thread of self-elevation that runs through the church and its membership. Mormons are taught and believe that they are on a path of eternal progression in this life to individual and eternal godhood. It is common in the church to be achievement oriented in order to promote a shining example to others to demonstrate the attributes of Mormonism in everything they do. Although Mitt achieved the office of governor, he did not do well for the people of Massachusetts. Massachusetts was in the bottom 3 states in job creation during Mr. Romney’s term. You have said that "if the American people knew what Romney truly believed, they would surely not place him in the highest office in the land." Have you corresponded or spoken with Mitt Romney? No, I have not. People of one religion may express their faith in many different ways. How do you know what Romney believes? Mitt takes his faith and religion very seriously and has held the offices of Mormon Missionary, Missionary Zone Leader, assistant to the Mission President (the highest position a missionary can hold), Mormon Bishop and Stake President over approximately 12 churches in his former district, in the LDS/Mormon Church. He was also a graduate of BrighamYoung University. You cannot attain the “calling” from the Lord to serve as Mormon Bishop or Stake President unless you are a thoroughly entrenched and obedient Mormon. Mitt comes from a long lineage of Mormonism which spans no less than four generations. He is certainly deeply entrenched in the Mormon doctrine. Mitt and Ann were married in the Salt Lake CityMormon Temple in which they participated in the secret endowment ceremonies. They continue to go to, as all temple Mormons do, and participate in these ceremonies. I experienced this same ceremony myself when I was married in the Mormon Temple. I cannot explain to you in a few words here just how completely violent, mind controlling and alarming these ceremonies are. Just this information on the secret temple ceremonies would send most thinking human beings in to “warning mode” that maybe we all better rethink who our Republican candidate should be. I can’t stress enough to you how truly alarming these ceremonies that Mitt and Ann repeatedly went through, and continue to go to and participate in, are. The truth about this and more is truly stranger than fiction. Mitt Romney is an accomplished leader. Do you have the bona fides to attack him–and his faith? Where do I begin? Other than the fact that I have a long professional resume, I was raised in the Mormon Church and was a Mormon Bishop’s daughter. I am well versed in all beliefs, ceremonies, creation and history of the Mormon Church, of which the Mormon hierarchy has continually re-written to cast the church in a different light, in order to continue to bring in to the church approximately 330,000 gross-of-their-income tithe payers per year. It should also be mentioned that there is no accounting for these tax exempt billions of dollars to their membership. I was also the first Crisis Management/Damage Control specialist in the US as announced by Barbara Walters on 20/20. And through the years, I have opined on many TV and radio shows and various media venues throughout the US. I think it is important for people to know that I did not write this book because I wanted to. I wrote this book because I had to. I kept waiting for someone else to do it. It just amazed me, knowing what I know, that no one else would expose what has to be brought to light to the American people about this candidate, both from a bizarre belief standpoint and also regarding his political record. There are a number of web sites that have labeled you as a “professional Mormon basher.” Are you anti-Mormon? O Gosh No! My heart aches for the Mormon People. These people are doing the best they can to live up to the standards and the false doctrine of attaining godship in the Celestial Kingdom when they pass on. They are trying, through good works, to be perfect, "even as their Father In Heaven is perfect", which no man can achieve. That is why Christ came and died on the cross so that we could be forgiven of our sins because it is impossible to be human and sinless. Mormon dogma lays out the "Mormon" plan for salvation, versus, "Christ’s" plan for salvation. The Mormon plan for salvation and exaltation to godship is not only false, but places demands on church members that are unachievable in order to merit the "highest degree of glory". (Oh, does this sound Masonic?) Women in Utah are among the highest factions of consumers of anti-depressants (see Los Angeles Times article) in the US. There’s a reason for this. They are working themselves to death, while the goals that all Mormons try to achieve are based on false beliefs and theology. One cannot reconcile a lie, no matter how hard they try to believe it. And did I mention that their husbands have control over their Mormon Salvation? It is a loving thing to lead people out of deception and in to the truth. If I did not love them, I would not try to save them. Did you leave the LDS Church voluntarily—out of personal conviction—or were you excommunicated? Here's a excerpt from the book's introduction:
No, I was in no way, shape or form excommunicated or pushed out of the church. I have seen some Mormon posts out there that falsely suggest that I was possibly excommunicated from the church. This is an outright lie and a desperate attempt to discredit me so that the public, and Mormons, will not hear the message of truth from my book. The truth is, I left the church because I knew it was a complete lie. As a matter of fact, it took many years to get the church to take my name off of their membership roles. Mormon Missionaries would periodically show up at my door and letters were sent to me in attempts to pull me back in. The Mormon Church does not let go easily. After I left the church, it took years to clear the fog of the many years of indoctrination and deception that had been poured in to my brain. Even though I didn’t believe in it, when you sit in the pews for 21 years, you cannot avoid the mind binding programming and distortion. Many ex-Mormons go through the same process. Are you of the opinion that a Mormon should never be elected President? Yes, it is my opinion that an indoctrinated Mormon should never be elected as President of the United States of America. Indoctrinated temple Mormons (as Romney is) have experienced years of brainwashing and indoctrination and also have made covenants and oaths that they plainly cannot disobey. Mitt Romney and all temple Mormons have sworn to obey The Law of Consecration in the secret temple ceremonies which states "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at the altar, the you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in The Doctrine and Covenants (a Mormon book), in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, an everything with which the Lord has bless you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormon Church), for the building up of the Kingdom of God on earth and for the establishment of Zion." Ex-Mormon Ed Decker reveals the penalty for disobedience that was made by Mitt Romney (and all temple Mormons) at the time he took out his temple endowments: The "execution of the penalty" for disobedience was demonstrated "by placing the thumb under the left ear, the palm of the hand down, and by drawing the thumb quickly across the throat to the right ear, and dropping the hand to the side." He further states: "It is hard to imagine that well-educated Mormon men of such political stature like former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, Utah Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah and Senator Harry Reid of Nevada could bring their thumbs to their throats and swear a blood oath that they will 'suffer' their throats slit from ear to ear should they not sacrifice all that (they) possess, even (their) own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God, as defined by the Mormon prophet." I attest to these violent oaths and death signs that were made in the secret temple ceremonies, and more, because I also experienced and enacted the same. It is also important to point out that the Mormon Kingdom of God is different from the Christian Kingdom of God. My book explains that Mormons believe the Kingdom of God will be in Jackson, Missouri and that the Mormons will be and maintain the government of the earth. No joke. Long story short, it would be near to impossible for an entrenched Mormon to place his allegiance to the United States of America over the Mormon Church. After Mitt’s death oaths to the church, it is my belief that he lied about this to the American people and will continue to do so. Furthermore, would you trust the judgment of a man who truly believes he will become a literal God and will be given his own kingdom/planet to rule over and populate with spirit babies (and many more bizarre beliefs explained in the book) to be placed in to the highest office in the land? Really? In my humble opinion, I truly think we, as a nation can, no longer overlook the reality of any aspect of the background, character, belief system, and political truth that has formed the man or woman who will become our next President. There is too much at stake. And what about a Jewish or Muslim candidate? The Jews are God’s chosen people. They follow the Old Testament. Even though every Old Testament prophecy of the coming Messiah was fulfilled in Jesus Christ, they still have not accepted him as the Messiah. They cannot be compared to a cult religion in any way. They are to be respected and protected. There is no intellectual or spiritual argument that a person of Jewish decent should not run for the Office of the President. A Muslim candidate would compare to a Mormon candidate in many ways. The two religions contain histories of false prophets and man-made (not God-made) religious books, writings that are full of fallacies, false doctrine, indoctrination and bizarre promises of the afterlife. So much more to say but I would like to keep the topic on the current election. Let me just say that there are good people in both the Mormon and Muslim religions who are striving to live a righteous life according to what they believe. It’s just that some beliefs have been proven to be patently false. And when it comes to placing a candidate in the highest office in the land, we need to place a stable and discerning president in office. If a candidate believes in proven lies and practices cult-like doctrine, how can the American people hold confidence in him/her as the leader of the free world? This may be the most important Presidential election in our history. We can’t afford to get it wrong. * * * We asked Richard Bushman for his reaction to Tricia Erikson's answers. Bushman, once a Mormon missionary himself, is the Howard W. Hunter Visiting Professor of Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University in California.  CLICK HERE to read our OFF-SET blog interview with Prof. Bushman. An emeritus professor at Columbia University, he received his Ph.D. in the History of American Civilization from Harvard. Among his books is the biography, “Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling.” He also serves as one of three general editors of the Joseph Smith Papers.
* * * UPDATE 7-7-11 / 11 am ET: We received this statement from Corey P. Saylor, National Legislative Director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)
And here are comments from Ahmed M. Rehab, Executive Director, CAIR-Chicago.
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First clue given,
She has written a book!
Second clue given...
Is she selling it for profit, at cost, or giving it away?
FOR PROFIT!!!
Dandini, trust me, the amount of work and research that went in to this book was very costly. I would rather have not had to write this book at all. I kept waiting for someone else to do it, but time was becoming short with no indication that the truth would come out on this candidate and before the election. And the Mormon Church continues to feed the innocent at the troth of deceit.
This will probably be the only and last book I will ever write.
do you think people are really interested in reading your book??? They can read the same trash all over the internet .....
Any exposé on Mormonism is an act of heroism in my book. If you can't find or afford Tricia's book, go to exmormon.org to get factual information about the false premise of Mormonism, and details about the ongoing historical revisionism by LDS hierarchy in the 21st century. Mormonism is a massive multi-national corporate conglomerate with a well funded PR machine hell-bent on making everyone a Mormon. 52,000 unpaid 19-year old sales representatives should tell you something about their frightening business model.
The only book you ever write?
Thank God!
Can't wait to read your book , Tricia!! Don't let the Mormons and nay-sayers get to you! They just don't want the truth published and out there! Keep on keepin' on!!
-Trisha-
I liked this article very much. The sheer irony of it all, including some of the phrases used, just blew me away.
CNN is trying a little harder with this article. It's good to see.
Well, at least you're out of that crazy religion.
Now just keep changing religions until you are free and you'd probably get my vote for President, yourself!
But as far as I'm concerned, Evangelicals aren't much better than Mormons from where I sit, sorry.
.
But don't take it personally. It's the religion you are still wrapped up in that bothers me. You are a smart person who was able to escape once at least. That's more than a great many people ever do. And I like the way you write.
Keep on writing! And if you could find the Republican party a non-sleazy candidate, please do so. They haven't done that for a loooong time.
I'm sorry, but I do not see any real difference between the Mormons and any other Christian church. Sure they have different rituals, and some seem very silly like the holy underpants, but Christians do things equally as silly in my book. Any group that requires blind faith to be a follower is a danger to society. Why trade one belief in purple fairy's for a belief in green ones.
The issue isn't religion, but what damage a long-standing set of delusions will do to a person's decision-making.
That the delusions in this case happen to be religious in nature is really besides the point as far as I'm concerned.
You say the amount of research that went into this book was very costly. Ok I buy that! Do you mind telling us how large your sample population was, how you chose your sample population, What kind of statistical test did you run? I imagine that you mostly wrote about your own experiences and then handpicked several people that hate the Mormon church to interview, am I correct? Did you acctually ask current practicing Mormons for thier input and then quote them in the book?
Speaking as a believing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. If you wanted to know how to bake a cake,you would look in a cookbook that was written by someone that knows how to make a cake. You would not asked someone that does not know how to bake a cake; nor would you ask anyone that does not understand the benefits of cooking. If you want to know about My Church, You are welcome to come to My Church or ask a believing Member. Remember if I wanted to Know about the Baptist beliefs, I would ask a current Baptist; not a Catholic or a Muslim or any other Religion. This only works if you are seeking the Truth. Most everyone on this planet lives by some form of Faith or a belief in something they do not yet know. I have Faith that when my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, said as stated in Amos 3:3 Where three or more gather in My Name there I shall Be.( Notice it does not say as long as one or more of You are not Mormon.) That he meant what He said. Some people have faith or a belief that there is no God, some believe that Their church is Right and Mine is wrong. Tricia Erickson has faith that the covenants she made with God when She was a Mormon; (not with the Mormon Church; But with GOD) The promises She made to Her God. She was just Kidding. She has Faith that God will laugh off Her Promises and not hold her accountable. We all have Faith that we are right; but as to date only one Man is believed to have died, risen up to Heaven, and returned to earth. And He is not telling at this time. As far as Mitt Romney being a good President because of his Religious beliefs; many Americans and I believe our Founding Fathers created this Great Nation with the influence and beliefs in Religion. It is not Our job to judge a candidate for President on his Religious belief. It is our job to choose wisely a candidate based on Their Beliefs and Respect for Our Great Nation. One final note to Tricia Erickson; I am sure that You really really hope that one of the Millions of Foolish,mislead,and Depressed Mormons does not sue You for Slander since you wrote your Book on Misguided faith and not Fact. Sincerely a Former Licensed Southern Baptist Preacher, May God guide our Great Nation.
"A Muslim candidate would compare to a Mormon candidate in many ways. The two religions contain histories of false prophets and man-made (not God-made) religious books, writings that are full of fallacies, false doctrine, indoctrination and bizarre promises of the afterlife. So much more to say but I would like to keep the topic on the current election."
Do you realize that you how similar your quotes or to what Hitler said? For being an educated person you sure did miss the ball on that. I am not a religious person by any means but I am a huge fan of history. All I have to say is wow. Real American of you to decide that certain religions can't be president. I think Hitler and some of the most notorious dictators of all time had that philosophy.
Lastly, I don't know if you have noticed but the last couple True Christian presidents that we have had really have done a terrible job at accomplishing anything. Well that is unless "God" told them to collect as much money as they can and bail on the American people. Did you travel from the past and are actually the same person that was against JFK because he was Catholic. If so that makes sense.
It is easy to point out the weaknesses of any religion, but in this internet age of instant information it is especially dangerous when people with a vendetta attempt to broadly characterize people of a religion or group.
Intolerant and narrow views like Tricia Erickson's MUST be challenged lest our society revisits the witch hunts of our past.
Gary Krause
Cherry Hill Pennsylvania
It will be the only and last book you will write because you are a hack. "Oh, I just waited for someone else to say something, I really did!! But I guess it is up to me to tear down someone else's faith." The responses to your lame book and explanation couldn't be more correct – you are the epitome of everything that the Founding Fathers despised. Thanks for exposing yourself...
Tricia-
We all want to know what church you go to – not the brand of Christianity – but exactly which church/pastor/location, etc. We all know you want to put Mormons in check – which is fine – but after that hate diatribe – we need to put you in check. What was Obama's pastors name? same place?
Despite alledgedly "being raised as a Mormon" – you certainly don't sound like you've ever met a Mormon. As far as the blood oath thing – just sounds like you're taking one-off factoids and trying to label the whole religion. Ever heard of the Masons? how about their 'til death oaths? should we eliminate half our presidents who were Masons? Ever been in a fraternity or sorority? Should we eliminate anyone from these organizations because of the oaths they make to follow superiors? just wondering.
your argument is tired – find something real to improve... like ending AIDS or hunger or improving the unemployment rate.
As a Muslim, it's this type of trash and blatant falsehoods I have come to experience quite a bit and abhor absolutely. Ahmad Rehab gave an excellent response to Tricia's ridiculous statements of slander. You should be ashamed of yourself, Tricia. You aren't doing anyone any good by doing this. The only thing you are doing is to marginalize someone's accomplishments, goals, dreams, and willingness to act upon righteousness by destroying their reputation based on YOUR OWN beliefs. YOU BELIEVE what you believe about Mormonism, Christianity, Islam, and all other religions. It doesn't make any of your BS true. Your statements are truly anti-American.
As a devout member of the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints, and a big fan of truth and accuracy, I find Tricia Erickson's caricature of my faith intellectually dishonest on a number of fronts. There is much discourse from reputable sources online like http://www.mormon.org and http://www.fairlds.org that help paint a more accurate picture of what Mormons actually believe. Ms. Erickson simply parrots anti-mormon themes, and tries to re-cloak them in some kind of new relevancy vis a vis Mitt Romney's presidential campaign. All I can say here is that my faith in Jesus Christ, drives me to be a kinder, humbler, gentler, more forgiving, and more loving husband, father, co-worker, and citizen of this great country. I also am a "Temple Mormon" as Ms. Erickson terms it, and find the ordinances in the Temple edifying and cleansing. I feel close to my Heavenly Father, and his Son when there. Everything in our Temples is designed to bring one closer to their Savior, Jesus Christ.
What I have to say in response to Ms. Erikson's post is far to long to write as a comment here. Instead, I will summarize my thoughts and leave a link to my blog where I have responded to her comments in full. If you care to read the full post, follow the link. In summary, the tone of Ms. Erikson’s post appeals to sensationalism and hysteria. She relies on brainwashing as a pejorative term to sensationalize her writing and create an alarmist reaction, she fails to offer facts to support wild claims, contradicts her own account of why she left the LDS Church, presents a specious argument regarding why consecration precludes Mitt from serving as president, and shows disdain for the LDS faith based on a lack of doctrinal knowledge. In fact, her argument reminds me of a neighbor hissing through her teeth for our attention to gossip over the backyard fence about the "new people" who just moved in. "Oh, can you believe those Mormons! Did you know they wear funny underwear! And that temple, you'll never believe what goes on inside there.”
I would recommend if anyone reads this comment who truly wants to know more about the LDS faith, that he or she visit mormon.org or lds.org and read one of the enlightening posts or articles written there. Furthermore, you can read my full response to Ms. Erikson's post at markdmason.wordpress.com.
As an Ex-Mormon I so agree with you Tricia! and I appreciate your work! keep sharing the Truth! God Bless!
I trust her next book will be "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", she slings the hash of innuendo in the same way.
I am looking forward to this book. Anyone who can stand up to Mormonism, LDS and their prophets is a hero. Because, Jesus has taught Christians that they need to test all prophets. I have seen how Mormons lie to get where they are today. And, all people deserve the truth because in the end there will be one truth coming out. Not two fathers to speak for. I have been really hurt by the LDS teachings and their methods. I've never seen such harsh teaching that work so hard to cover up their shame behind the white clothes they wear. I hope someday people in LDS teachings will see the wrong that they do. Because, sooner or later the world will see both sides of the coin and realize that Mormons and LDS start a new root that really leads people to betray rather than love. And, they make people think that they love. But, truth is that love does hurt... but love is not supposed to be controlling over emotions, live and plans.
I believe it is too bad this will be one book. I believe it will be a much need out there and hope that the author will reconsider writing another book someday. This experience, stess and pressure is not necessary... it's all human made damages toward the society that been around since the fall... and until today.
Looking forward to the book... and hope many others will read it too... everyone's feelings are worth knowing. And, everyone should stand a fair trial because at the end... as I said earlier there will be one truth.
Rex
You call Mormonism and Islam "false" and claim that they have been proven so. Is there any proof that Christianity isn't the false religion and Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Roman or Greek Paganism, or Jainism is true? Can you prove that the Bible was written by God? What makes you so sure and so quick to judge and hate?
I see one religious person attacking another religious person for having different beliefs. Cutting little boys immediately after birth or dunking an infant into a bowl of water seem odd to me if I was not Jewish/Christian, . To each their own as I see it as long as they do not allow it to bleed into their public life. I lived in MA while Romney was my governor and I did think he did a good job and never once did I hear him bring up Mormonism in any of his speeches or promote the religion in any way (I'm sure many groups would have been up in arms if so). You cite only job creation as a reason why he didn't benefit MA citizens. That is a poor argument unless you can back it up with additional figures that culminates a summation of issues which point to him being a bad governor. At best your argument is lacking.
Tricia,
I find this whole interview offensive to the human intellect. I'm an ex Mormon myself and I could resonate with some of what you said about the extreme pressures put on active Mormons to perform and on women to stay at home, but you didn't answer any of the questions put to you. You just dodged entirely and went off on how weird the Mormon temple ceremony is on almost every question. Besides which, the whole throat slitting thing was removed over a decade ago and one could argue that that nullified those promises. If you have something informative to say – about Romney as a Mormon – then say it, but his being connection to a church with weird ceremonies is no more pertinent than that every Christian gets buried in water to symbolize their own death and devours the body and blood of Christ on holy occasions. The only difference is that your familiar with it. Unless you can give reason why – he – will behave differently because of these oaths, I think you owe him an apology
p.s. I'm seriously concerned that you might have made up that story about your mom. Who talks like that to their child?
p.p.s. I'm offended for Bushman. Did you read that link? They quoted the Book of Mormon musical at him, asked him to respond and then said tootle loo. Poor guy must've gone home fuming.
Apparently the end of your novelist career came one book too late...
There is no evidence for any belief system being truer than another. Mormonism's beliefs are every bit as preposterous as catholic, christian, muslim and every other religion's beliefs. They were only concocted much more recently than others and are a bit easier to trace and debunk. As true as the things she says can be, her argument fails because the same things she says about Mormonism can be said about every other religion. I certainly felt the violence of catholic dogma when growing up in that church. It pushed me towards other religions and I quickly realized that the same spirit of domination and sensation of falsehood pervaded them all.
In spite of this I believe that people that are mostly rational can keep a certain belief in religion and still be dependable as public servants. You can say that of actually a majority of politicians in spite of the crazy things you sometimes hear them say when they are in ideology / rhetoric mode.
I would like a candidate with the courage to publicly state that they believe in evidence, facts and knowledge obtained through experimentation and not by supposition before anything. But rational people are afraid to say that because magical thinking, fear of evidence and a desire to return to medieval ways seem to pervade this society. Settling for people who show a history of mindful actions in spite of their beliefs is the closest we can hope for while we wait for a valiant mind to dare to speak.
You are so proud of having escaped one belief system, but its obvious that you never truly freed your mind. Instead, you only exchanged one belief system for another, and now you are parroting somebody else's philosphy of hate. Your mind sees only in black and white like a child. You are filled with prejudice, greed and hostility toward any religion you consider inferior to your own. Throughout our nation's history mormons have served faithfully in the armed forces in every conflict since the Spanish American war. They have served as mayors, governors, judges and representatives and senators in state and federal governments and as abassadors and other appointed positions, including cabinet level positions. I am not aware of a single incident in which a mormon serving in public office has done anything to discredit their office or refused to carry out their public duty on religious grounds. Mormons are patriotic and have consistenly shown their willingness to sacrifice for our nation. Maybe you don't like the candidate, but to attack him purlely on his religious beleifs is just religious prejudice, plain and simple.
Bless you for your work, Tricia. We know that our labor in the Lord is not in vain. Exposing Mormonism and the dangers of it is valuable in general terms. Yet, in application to the office of POTUS, the point is rather academic. We have in the office of POTUS, right now illegally, a man born of a Muslim father, raised Muslim, and who was born a British citizen. While the church nods off in a doze - sleeping - That would be apocalyptic biblical prophecy fulfilled and the 666 beast. There will never be another POTUS. Next, rapture and abomination of desolations.
Tricia
You speak the truth & it's clear some people can't handle the truth, keep it real!
The excerpts I have read from your article contains nothing new. I find it hard to believe it required extensive time and research.
Don't like Mormons? You don't have to, but you also should have the sense of mind to understand that this country is founded on Freedom of Religion and Beliefs and tolerance. How tolerant are you being? Let's check out your indoctrination. Re: ScottKs comments re: Dangerous Christians? How many Christians do you see blowing up people; bldgs; beheading & stoning; honor killing; raping women, girls and boys? Wake up. Look at a persons Actions to see who / what they really are.
The funny thing is that the article has so many false statements in it that I have a hard time believing anything this lady says. It is sad when people have an agenda instead of an honest point of view. Yes, I am an OBJECTIVE member of the LDS church and have been thru all the ceremonies. Bottom line is that she over sensationalized the truth in order to paint a negative picture. If anyone not a member saw these ceremonies, they'd she that she took a lot of license in her description. I'm so tired of people using their own person agenda while trying to pretend they are objective. Just stop the non-sense. This is what is wrong with journalism in the first place!
Tricia: You are an idiot; your book is crap. Why anybody would want to read it is beyond me. You are "well-versed" in all aspects of religion? PLEASE! Get a life!
Thank you Tricia for writing this important book. I have known so many members of the mormon church who didn't believe and wanted out – but didn't know how because of the reaction family and friends. I know how hard it is for a member to escape the strong hold the mormon community has on its members, but I have also seen people flourish when they are free from the indoctrination. You are helping many people see the truth about the secretive practices of the mormon church, including many practicing mormons I'm sure. Great Book!
Missionaries told me the mormon church has never apologized for keeping blacks from holding the priesthood – they said it was not even wrong – that it was just God's will to keep out blacks – until 1978. If the mormon church cannot even apologize for its racist history – doesn't that show a completely inability to acknowledge mistakes. It's all part of the need to appear perfect. We don't need that in a President.
TRICIA, your description of marriage in the temple as "violent" is absurd. In fact, your entire article reminds me of the outrageous early polemical works against Christianity in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.
Anti-Christians took the concept of partaking of Christ's body and turned it into outrageous accusations of cannibalism, such as this gem from "The Octavius of Marcus Minucius Felix," where Caecilius Natalis explained that Christian rites of initiation involved a young baby covered with flour, who was brought to the initiates:
"The recruit is urged to inflict blows onto it – they appear to be harmless because of the covering of flour. Thus the baby is killed with wounds that remain unseen and concealed. It is the blood of this infant – I shudder to mention it – it is this blood that they lick with thirsty lips; these are the limbs they distribute eagerly; this is the victim by which they seal their covenant; it is the by complicity in this crime that they are pledged to mutual silence."
Obviously, these accusations were outrageously false, as are the claims you have made against Mormonism. The consolation here is that the holes in your arguments, your lack of any credible sources, and your prejudice are easily apparent, and most educated readers will see your work for what it really is; the desperate rantings of a bigot.
I sincerely hope that readers (here and of your book) dont dismiss your writing as anti-mormon, or anti-christian. I lived in Provo, Utah (as a non-mormon) for over 4 years, and 2 years of that was spent renting a room from a Mormon family. While Mormons in general are extremely nice people...I find their practices reprehensible! They really have a great way of making you feel isolated in the community if you dont belong to to the church, and they treat church members that leave as pariahs! My ex-girlfriend had TONS of issues with her family because she wasnt living a "good Mormon life". Essentially, they cut you out of society completely...family, friends, co-workers...everyone shuns you until you rejoin the collective. This is cult behavior if I ever saw it! I have no idea what the "higher purpose" the leaders of the Church have laid out, but I guarantee you, it has nothing to do with the salvation of souls, and much to do with the fattening of bank accounts and control over our government! I really hope people are smart enough not to vote for Romney!
My question is this: Why is is it that you believe whatever it is that you believe right now? Were you shown perfect, irrefutable evidence? Were you shown proof that your current religion was true? Nope. Truth is that no one can or ever will have "irrefutable proof" that their beliefs are correct. In the end we are all backed up to the wall of faith. We have many reasons for believing what we believe. For the majority of is this belief stems from how we feel when we go to church and practice what we learn. When we feel God's spirit we feel like what we are doing is true. Such is the case in all religions. Reality is that all good churches lead us to feel good. In the end, since no perfect proof can be shown all we can do is follow the spirit we feel, learn from our experiences, and try to serve God as best we can. I'm a happy, practicing Mormon and know that I sincerely feel closer to God when I follow the church's teachings. Please understand that we all have our views and that, until anyone can "prove" 100% that they are right, we should respect one another and not tear one another down. Thanks.
pointing one finger only means three are pointing back at you – SO who really is the problem?
Well to begin, I moved from Washington, D.C. to Utah in 1995. For the past 17 years I have been trying to get a handle on the Mormon Religion and the impact a U.S. Mormon President will end up having on our nation. Coming from D.C., I am and have continued to be politically active. I have only read a few excerpts from your book, (funny, I can't find your book anywhere in Utah, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised) and however brief my introduction, you have already confirmed deep concerns I have from doing my own research. I want to personally thank you for your courage, as I am sure it wasn't easy...Since I will be visiting CT in a few days, I don't think I will have any trouble finding your book there. Thank you again, Donna
Tricia -
I think it's great when someone is strong enough to write what they believe and speak their truth regardless of the perception of others. That's what makes this country so great. If people don't want to read what you have to say then THEY don't have to buy it. It's quite simple.
But, we live in a society where all people want to do is complain and cry selfishly about things that they continue to sit on their couches and weep over. That's borderline hilarious, actually it's pathetic.
People actually think that by spouting off negative comments on this post takes any credit or validity from this book, when really it's a form of therapy for those unhappy self loathing individuals that obviously have nothing better to than stare at a computer all day for stimulus to their empty heads and boring lives.
Exercise your rights, and let the others wallow in your success!
"People actually think that by spouting off negative comments on this post takes any credit or validity from this book, when really it's a form of therapy for those unhappy self loathing individuals that obviously have nothing better to than stare at a computer all day for stimulus to their empty heads and boring lives."
and just how did YOU come by this post on CNN? ha ha ha ha probally the same way as we all did ha ha ha!!
Actually, no Dizzy. I was called and asked to look at it since I'm involved in politics. So you see, I don't have time to browse blogs, but I will chime in when necessary if someone brings my attention to them. Sorry, I have a life.
So you are here on "business"? Yet your cynicism does not go far enough. It does not take your own actions and world-view into account. Your post is truly ironic.
Yeah Katrina, you're pretty much a terrible employee of whatever group you work for, and you completely destroyed YOUR credibilty and validity because anything you write/wrote on this blog isn't going to benefit or build up the book either, so you screwed yourself. Good one.
Katrina,
Are you one of those "unhappy self loathing individuals that obviously have nothing better to than stare at a computer all day for stimulus to their empty heads and boring lives" as you describe? By goodnes you did post did you not! Speaking of therapy, does this book provide that for you?
I don't believe that evangelical Christians like Michele Bachmann should be allowed to run for the office of president of the United states. Michele Bachmann's brother-in-law brother Peter was quoted as saying about her husband, "He is her Godly husband. The husband is to be the head of the wife, according to God". Michele Bachmann apparently agrees with this philosophy. In a 2006 speech to congregants of The Living Word Christian Center she stated that “The Lord says: Be submissive, wives. You are to be submissive to your husbands,”.
She is saying, in effect, that if elected president of the United States, she will run the country according to the will of her husband, a man who neither ran for or was elected to the presidency. Can you imagine the outcry from conservatives if Hillary Clinton had stated that if elected president she would do whatever Bill told her to do?
In my opinion, this philosophy alone should disqualify Michele Bachmann from running for the office of president of the United States.
Erikson actually thinks that by spouting off negative comments in her book, she will take some credit or validity from the fact that people can practice whatever religion they choose, when really writing the book is a form of therapy for those unhappy self loathing individuals that obviously have nothing better to do, like Tricia Erikson.
Like other people who are curious about their religious faiths, I attempted to follow the Mormon ways of life. As I was babtised and made my way into the church I began to realize that I was entrenched in a very cult like organization. My thoughts began to become clouded, I began to second guess myself in situations that should have been easy to decide. I felt a sense of obligation and guilt towards the church... The problem was that my once known faith and relationship to God was now slowly being shifted toward a "prophet" and a building, not God's word. So my question to anyone is when one takes commands from a "prophet" and not souly relying on their relationship with God, Do you think that Mitt Romney will listen to you?
Really Matt, either your are being completely dishonest in your purported experience with the Church or Jesus Christ or Latter-day Saints are you were somehow horribly misinformed about the church your supposedly joined. Either way the focus of the church is not on a man or a building but on creating a relationship with a savior, Jesus Christ. Churches and temples (much in the same way as any other ecclesiastic building from any other religion) serve as a place of worship and in the case of a prophet he serves as a special witness of Jesus Christ and of Christ's role as the savior of the world. Each member of the LDS or Mormon faith as a personal responsibility to develop a relationship with Christ based on personal revelation from the Holy Spirit.
Based on that doctrine I find your post disingenuous, take that as you like.
I might also say that I'm less interested in arguing that point with you than I am in clarifying your horribly miss-representative statement for other readers who might come across this later.
Every church is "cult like" in its beliefs. "Believe in 'X' because this book says so and OUR book is RIGHT and everyone else's books are WRONG."
As someone who was raised evangelical christian I find beliefs that a man put one pair of each kind of animal in an ark (including dinosaurs depending on who's opinion you ask), burning bushes relayed the jewish code of law (interestingly which appeared in an earlier civilization see: sumeria), and that a virgin birth spawned a perfect man who died and then came back to life and then left for heaven again are really right up there on the "kook level" as secret ceremonies, becoming a god, and wearing magical underwear. In my life I have found the people who are the most vocal about others religions being "false" are often the most unsure of their own beliefs. Case in point are people like Tricia who now desperately tries to tear down her old faith in an attempt to strengthen the crumbling foundation of her current one. Maybe in a few years she will chill out and convert to Buddhism.
Really Matt, if Christ felt that having prophets in an organization was a hindrance to people having a relationship with him, he wouldn't have established the offices of Prophet and Apostle in his own organization. No honest reader of the New Testament can miss the verses in Ephesians 4 and I Corinthians 12 and Ephesians 20 where Paul states that the Saints are built on the foundation of Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the Chief Cornerstone. The primitive church saw these offices as complementary, not contradictory to the goals of the Savior for his followers. And Tricia seriously needs to study her Bible a bit better. She might find Romans 8, Revelations 3 and Acts 17 instructive. Romans 8 puts it this way. "The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. And if children then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ." Paul actually refers to humans as God's offspring. Rather than trying to "expose" Mormons so called "secret" ceremonies, perhaps Tricia should spend some time asking herself why her faith tradition calls taking these verses seriously is now considered an extreme error when serious biblical scholars will attest that the doctrine of deification was a key tenet of authentic primitive Christianity. The Greek Orthodox Churches have no problem with this historical fact. This was a keystone Christian doctrine for centuries. The fact that Evangelicals would like to forget it is not Mitt Romney's fault.
Matt-I'm not going to deny your experience with the LDS. But your experience of Mormonism is yours, not anyone else's. Does that excuse your stereotyping of the entire Mormon church? Not one bit.
Every religion has its own contradictions, and every religious organization has problematic, unethical, and hypocritical people among its ranks. That fact is true of any group with human beings in it. Why would the LDS church be any different?
The God I worship has always spoken through His prophets. See Amos 3:7.
Anyone interested in learning of this womans past can google Erickson Agency of Virginia. She and her husband were caught up in scams to bilk many people out of money. The Feds went after her, and she Plea Bargained.
Nice find...so does this discredit her? Sadly, people will continue to think she's a good / intelligent / classy person. Let her record speak for itself.
So this is just one more scam by a lady (I use the term loosely) who has demonstrated with the Erickson Agency that she will do ANYTHING for money. A true unrepentant scam artist. Stealing money from young innocent women.
How did CNN let themselves be conned by this person? The world wants to know.
Yeah CNN, what's your answer?
Is this the same Patricia Erikson?
http://www.ftc.gov/os/1999/05/model1cmp.htm
Matthew 7:16-20 seems relevant.
http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/7.16-20?lang=eng#15
I vote she is selling it for profit. See the Feds charges against her from an earlier Scam. Google (Erickson Agency, VA).
There's a lot of really foolish stuff in Erickson's piece, much of it brought out in other comments from members of the Church here. Everyone else should know that despite her disclaimers, there is no love in her words. (John 13:35.) There is not even an attempt to be fair. It's a "hit" piece. But I want to call attention to just one of the claims, since it is seen so often and since the truth is so easy to expose: The claim that there is something self-aggrandizing in the idea that God wants great blessings for His children. Since the word "god" (lower-case "g") is used, this becomes an opportunity for demagoguery, but it is no more than an explanation of Romans chapter 8. C. S. Lewis (he was a Christian, right?) wrote: "It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship." [C. S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory and Other Addresses, rev. ed. (New York: Macmillan, Collier Books, 1980), 18].
Lewis also explained, "The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were "gods" and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him—for we can prevent Him, if we choose—He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said." [Lewis, Mere Christianity, 174—75.]
So if Erickson wants to poke snarky fun at C.S. Lewis, I guess she can, but I believe the Bible. And it is impossible for me to understand why someone who believes that Paul's epistle to the Romans was inspired by God can't be President of the United States. I imagine that there have been others. You could ask President Obama?
As a non-Mormon who lives in Utah, I can assure you that I live in what amounts to a theocracy. I feel completely unrepresented here by my so-called representatives. I am in Ogden (the state's second alrgest city), where the population is only 50 percent practicing Mormon. Salt Lake has even fewer. And yet.
The LDS church has serious, if not in fact utter, control over the laws made in Utah. I don't want any one religion running our country, and that does seem to be a tennet in the Mormon faith.
I do like Huntsman, after having had him for governor. I am as blue as the sky, when it comes to politics, but I did vote for him (the only Republican for a major office I have voted for in my 30 years of voting), and thought he did a great job here. I would consider voting for him again for president.
Yes, we Catholics do have weird beliefs, but ours don't demand featly to faith over gov't. Frankly, affecting our gov't that II've come to think an atheist president would be the best bet - it would take this ridiculous religiosity out of gov't, and maybe, just maybe, make it the private matter it should be.
Plus, as an atheist thinks they only get one go-around, they would likely do their best to get it right this time.
Utah is the most fiscally fit state in the nation right now. Maybe Utah voters SHOULD be making the decisions for the rest of us
You're kidding, right? You have a poor mastery of papist history. The Popes WERE the government for more than a thousand years.
Utah a theocracy? You must be joking. Salt Lake City is where Mormon headquarters are, and that city has had some of the most liberal mayors of any Western city recently. Do you expect people to believe that the LDS Church is behind the recently relaxed liquor laws there? To throw the word theocracy around in America is about as accurate as the over used term "Nazi". There are no true theocracies in the United States, not even in Utah.
Bingo!
"The two religions contain histories of false prophets and man-made (not God-made) religious books, writings that are full of fallacies, false doctrine, indoctrination and bizarre promises of the afterlife."
Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Such statements make it clear to people from the secular mainstream that a large number of religious evangelists are incapable of analyzing their own beliefs with the same skepticism they apply to other religions. The most respected religous figures are tolerant, not because the devil is working to undermine the faith, but because their tolerance shows that they understand that no faith can justify their superiority through empiricism and reason. Any attempt to do so makes both sides look weak and leads towards agnosticism.
Disgruntled former member of the church. CNN is giving her a chance to sell her book?
This is just another story on bigotry. Put an atheist in the White House and see if the nation doesn't get some real things done for this nation. Religious NUTJOBS are ruining this country in much the same way that Islamic NUTJOBS are ruining many of the fine middle eastern nations. Wake up people, we are litteraly going to hell in a handbag.
Here's an empirical fact: Atheists-who are human and thus vulnerable to prejudice-are as capable of stereotyping and bigotry as any religious group. Also, you don't have to believe in a supernatural deity to be religious. Your own comment proves it.
INDOCTRINATION? GUESS WHAT- this THEORY applies to everyone – since there IS NOT a person on this Planet that is not INDOCTRINATED in some way ; everyone has their BIAS, BELIEFS and Opinions. Therefore, NO ONE is Qualified to be President, according to your 'indoctrinated' opinion.
The bottom line is this: Any candidate or holder of public/political office has the responsibility to, first and only, place the rights and interests of the American people above all else, including over his/her private beliefs. The separation of church and state is there to protect the religious and non-religious alike. Anyone can run for office, it's up to us as voters to hold their feet to the flame, so to speak.
What I want to know is: When did CNN join Obama's re-election campaign? This is obviously a smear piece aimed at a political candidate's religious beliefs.
While I'm as critical of Obama as the next person, something tells me he wouldn't allow an anti-Mormon bigot to work on his reelection campaign.
Why is CNN running a smear-piece on the religious beliefs of a presidential candidate?
And, why are my comments being posted in response to this particular post rather than the post I actually responded to??? Twice now my responses have been put under a different post than the one under which I hit "Reply".
Dandini: Ms. Erickson answered your question by failing to deny that she is selling the book, not giving it away. And I think you're right; that just about says it all. However, I cannot leave off without seriously objecting to the characterization of the Mormon religion as a "lie." It may not be true, but it is no more a lie than "Christ came [to earth] and died on the cross [to save us from our sins]." Evidently, something Ms. Erickson strongly believes, just like Mormons strongly believe in eternal progression.
But don't miss what is truly insidious about Ms. Erickson's message: "In my humble opinion, I truly think we, as a nation can, no longer overlook the reality of any aspect of the background, character, belief system, and political truth that has formed the man or woman who will become our next President." This is code for the litmus test that Fundamentalist Christians apply to candidates for public office. In simple terms, non-Christians need not apply. In my humble opinion, this is a much greater threat to the republic than a Mormon becoming president.
Yes a mormon should not hold office but ideally neither should a christian, muslim or any others who adher to irrational belief and dogma. The above arrguments apply to all religions as well as mormonism. The travisty is that an agnostic or nonbeliever effectively can not hold office in the usa
There is no difference in the mormon faith and any other faith. All men are as good as they are unto themselves. Saying a mormon should not be president is like saying a jew should not be president. Neither makes any sense. Stop looking at religion and pay attention to the man. I'm so fed up with listening to all the garbage about this one or that one. It is time we reflect who we are and as an individual turn back to our values and morals, then and only then will a true leader be elected.
I wonder if she has a problem with the current President who belonged to a Marxist church for 20 years.
"Marxist"? What?
genomega1, yes I do have a problem with the current President and his attendance in his former church. This is just further evidence that we absolutely must examine the belief system of our future presidents because their belief systems are an indicator of how they will govern as President.
Tricia
That might be true in some cases, but I have a feeling the problem is better defined as patterns of personal behavior and ability to go that extra mile to make sure any decision-making is truly in the best interest of ALL citizens to the best of his / her secular abilities. The Office of President is an executive office that executes our nation's secular laws.
The test shouldn't be what religion, but how his value system affects his decision-making when some of his values may not be true, accurate, or even possible in real life.
We need realists who act with enlightened self-interest and empathy in a forceful, executive manner and do not compromise on enforcing the Constltution, which should admit of no compromise where our equal rights and general welfare are concerned.
President Obama is not enforcing the Constltution all that much, nor is he attacking problems at their roots.
That is why I would welcome someone better, even a Republican if they were not so brainwashed. Seriously.
I would like to see progress, not a Republican rampage.
There are other things just as bad as religion for messing up a person's decision-making!
I think we need to start by checking out your belief systems – is it OK to use false advertising to lure unsuspecting young women into expensive courses to prepare them for non-existant jobs? Some of us would call this theft – which is proscribed to real christians.
Given your reputation, why would anyone believe anything you say – ever?
Lou, you are just doing what mormons always do when someone speaks out about their church. Tricia grew up in the mormon church. She knows the secrets. She knows how children are made to stand up in church and say "i know the mormon church is the one true church," she went through the bizarre temple ceremonies. I know the mormon church hates it when ex-mormons speak out, but she is simply stating the truth – I've seen it as well. If the mormon beliefs and ceremonies were not so bizarre, mormons would not be so embarrassed when someone shines a light on those beliefs. Most people are happy to see their beliefs spread, but the mormon church wants to keep them secret. That in itself is a red flag.
Hankscram: That's "sacred", not "secret". Christ's "pearls before swine" quote comes to mind, not that I'm calling anyone swine. Christ spoke in parables for the same reason.
This blog post describes an instance of a Mormon seeking approval in carrying out his duties as Secretary of Agriculture
http://culturalmormoncafeteria.blogspot.com/search?q=ezra
The referenced conversation smacks of being totally contrived. I'm not going to analyze the entire conversation but for starters an Apostle in the church is normally referred to as, say Elder Benson, not Brother Benson.
Also, the Diocese of Salt Lake City and the Mormon Church or Church of Jesus Christ or Latter-day Saints have a great working relationship so I just don't see the underlying reason for why the LDS Church would want to avoid a meeting between an apostle and the pope in the first place.
http://www.mormontimes.com/article/959/Mormons-Catholics-must-defend-religious-freedom-Cardinal-says
Just saying.
wish SOME people would spend more time whilst on this planet, making it a better place for people to live in and takling more important issues (and making money from attacking other peoples personal faiths)
To some people, faith and truth makes the world a better place.
lets not forget tolerance......and love and caring for others.....infact all that the Savior taught really and I'm sure Mitt has many many of these great qualities..........
Yes I agree, but a mormons faith and what he/she believes hasn't ever caused any personal/spiritual damage to you or me. So who cares if Mitt Romney was elected as president? He's not going to do any harm to me or you. Just like the Dr's hippocratic oath states, "First, do no harm". The mormon church is worldwide, in every state, in nearly every country with leaders and commoners alike. Never has it been associated with anything other than good deeds, and in doing good to all man, not just those who are mormon.
You cannot guarantee that he will not harm anyone. You can't even face the con-artist past of Smith himself.
Hell, you're just talking through your hat, a fraud, just like Smith. Hey, at least you follow the real Smith, eh?
"Never has it been associated with anything other than good deeds, and in doing good to all man, not just those who are mormon."
Stupid can't be fixed, but you can cure ignorance - and this statement shows a profound ignorance of the history of Mormonism.
The truth is the truth - and it needs to be spoken, regardless if it offends people. I assume you are LDS and don't like the truth being stated about the secret temple rituals.
You are able to see it , all our rituals are on the internet (youtube), is sacred not secret
Tricia's points are very irrational. I like how the mormon history buff compares how she only picks on mormon beliefs when you can do that with every religion. News flash: 200 years ago teenage girl is pregnant without intercourse and is going to have the son of God. (Jesus) Christians are now go under water to declare allegiance and rebirth (baptism). Weird? No weirder than any Jew, Muslim or Mormon's beliefs. That is the definition of religion. Believing in weird stuff that gives hope and peace in a crazy world.
What's even worse is trying to bring this discrimination to politics. Harry Reid is mormon. Glenn Beck is mormon. Need I say more?
I'm Evangelical but I have mormon friends. They are some of the most reasonable people that I know and I would vote for one anyday. Sounds like Trica is just bitter.
There are many respectable Mormons , Muslims, & others of other religions but there is only one God. Many of his flock are lost and follow wolfs posed as shepherds. God's children follow false religions rather than Jesus our shepherd. Find God and you will find forgiveness, everlasting life, and love.
Amen
Matthew, yes Mormons are some of the nicest people you will ever want to meet. However, they are completely deceived and at the expense of the Mormon hierarchy who take the 10% of the gross of their innocent money and invest in "for profit" business that have nothing to do with taking care of the members of their own church. If you read the book, you will see that there is so much horrific history of lying and distortions ....they financially take advantage of their own members and program to think that they are in a "true" religion to do so. I grew up in it so I know of what I speak. It is a loving thing to tell people the truth when they are deceived.
Tricia, you stated that the " Mormon hierarchy who take the 10% of the gross of their innocent money and invest in "for profit" ....they financially take advantage of their own members." I am just trying to figure out who is profiting from this deception. Please tell me so that I can try to get their job.
This sounds like a perfect description of the average evangelical christian church as well.
Tricia, I used to be a symphonic string player and as such I played music in a lot of different churches. I have seen sincere congregations, not so sincere congregations and flat out obvious scammery. The only congregations that fit the latter category were evangelical congregations. Every single quote from the bible, every bit of the pastor's sermon was designed to fill the coffers of the church with money. And when the entire congregation lifted up their check books to get blessed I nearly vomited on my music stand. This is one of the main reasons I eschew religion now. While not a total atheist, I am more like a freethinking agnostic, I believe no man is capable of telling another how to worship or whether to worship at all. And while I think that yes the LDS is wierd and cult like, so is your so called "faith". To me the evangelical's true god is mammon. Religion in general, and especially yours need to be kept out of political decisions entirely. We need a rational free thinker in the white house who owes allegiance to no god.
Can we take the attention off Mormonism for a second, and argue that the government takes far more than 10% of my income and how exactly do I benefit from that?
You say that they "take" from their members. This is in no way forced upon members of the church. They give because they choose to, not because they are forced to. Stop changing words to make things sound like what they are not.
Actually, that 10% is used not just to take care of poor members of the LDS church, but also for the relief of disaster victims (like in Haiti and with hurricane Katrina), without regard to faith. And isn't it entirely a matter of personal opinion which books are man-made and which are God-made? Your arguments amount to a smear campaign against Mitt Romney, and the LDS faith, and they are nothing more than your warped opinions and less-than-half truths. Please get your facts straight.
Tricia...you obviously never had a testimony. I am a convert of more than thirty years..I was guided by a loving Father in Heaven to this wonderful Church. We are taught true principles of our Savior's teachings...and yes, he does want us to be as our Father in Heaven...Mathew 5:48...You and any of us can find the truth...just ask. Mitt Romney has a tremendous record as a true Christian. In all of his business dealings and political aspirations, he has been a man of integrity. He helped restore honesty and a financially solid platform to the Olympic committee. I am very glad to be a Mormon. There are no burdens, just blessings. Seek and you, too shall find. I did.
Matthew,
With all due respect, as a former Mormon and now an Evangelical Christian I can tesitfy to you that what Tricia has stated it the truth. 100% facts. Please do not be duped into thinking Mormonism is just another nice brand of Christianity, another nice denomination, family centered and all. Nothing can be farther from the truth! Please do some research. Check out the following websites and you will find out that the gospel of Mormonism is not the gospel that Jesus Christ preached.
http://www.irr.org
http://www.mrm.org
http://utlm.org
Grace & peace,
Well, let's see...when the apostles came to Jesus and asked whether they should forbid others who were acting in his name who refused to follow them, Jesus taught, "forbid them not...for he that is not against us is on our part." (Mark 9:40). So, actually, it seems to me that it is "Christians" like you who are not following the teachings of Jesus.
Also, check out http://www.mormon.org
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org
for a balanced view.
Matthew,
Sounds like you might be a Mormon. The only ones that call ex-Mormons bitter are Mormons.
peace,
Well said.
That's definitely not true...she's bitter...there I said it. Therefore your argument is void.
Thank you!
Should read "and NOT making money from attacking other peoples personal faiths" only in America hey? Land of the Free...NOT
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free. The book was written to bring the truth of this aweful cult to the forefront and set the captives free.
Amen, tricia! God bless you! Keeping sharing the truth.
You claim to "feel bad" for the Mormons, but I genuinely feel sorry for you. I might not necessarily agree with either your side or theirs, but they sure are a much more decent people than you are, and if they're right when you die, I feel even more sorry for you.
Ah, one of the DeWitts weighs in. Well you can take your blood oaths to violate the laws of this country and go to hell.
*awful
If you are going to troll use spell check.
Ed Decker? My roomate in college was friends with his family (friend was a presbyterian). Funny how Ed "saw the light" and thought that Mormonism was wrong AFTER he was ex communicated for committing adultery (is ex communicating a member for adultery wrong?). That's not mentioned in his book, is it? Does he mention that some of his kids have returned to the Mormon Church? Hmmmm.......this is a primary source of information for your book Tricia? I met with Mormon missionaries, brought Ed's book out and quizzed them on this over a series of weeks. Just about everything in the book is either taken out of context, heresay, or a flat out lie. and they used their own scriptures to back up what they said. Recommend people learn to research facts before they spout off hate against any religion. I bet that I could make you look pretty ridiculous if I wanted too. Jesus walked on water....prove it. Three Gods who are one, called the Trinity? One was in Heaven while the other part of him was on earth and at the same time he was the Holy Spirit? what? Don't forget, Paul was one of God's greatest messangers, but he used to hunt down Christians before he was an apostle. Before you bash on Joseph Smith, take a look at the other characters in the Bible and hold them to the same standard. Ed Decker as a source? what?
Ha! This is borderline hilarious Tricia! It's also very sad how much hatred you have. "Are you anti-mormon?" "Gosh, no!" Did you happen to also "study" Hugh Nibley's discourse "How to write an anti-Mormon book" because you followed each instruction to a T!!! Nice going! Also, if you "knew" the church wasn't true at 9 why did you stay until 21. I know you're going to hate this too but you are a fulfillment of Ol' Joe Smith's prophecy. You can't leave the Mormons alone! You're obsessed! And don't say you feel for them or you love them (again another word-for-word instruction from Hugh). Give it up...go live your life to it's fullest. Do something noble. Be a Christian. Follow Christ's example and just be nice. This is not nice no matter how much you convince yourself your doing the right thing. I don't care how much the country "needs to know" this stuff. Just do good unto others, ok!
Andrew Steele, PhD
MIT
Andrew, I know that this hurts because you are a Mormon. However, I did not write the book to hurt you or anyone else. I wrote the book to bring the truth to you and all who are caught up in the Mormon deception so that they can be set free to worship the real Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. You are worshiping a church, and you are obedient to the "church". If you knew the truth, you would be grateful for this book.
May God Bless you and keep you in the palm of His hand.
Disillusionment is almost always painful. But it is a good kind of pain. It is the pain of freedom.
I am a Mormon. This doesn't "hurt". All it makes me want to do is roll my eyes. I don't feel sorry for you, please don't feel sorry for me. Also, what evidence do you have that you are a rational human being? You admit that you didn't believe at an early age, and yet you decided to receive your endowments in the temple? I'm sorry if you felt "forced", but you must realize that you never were. In fact, many times in the temple you are instructed to leave if you are uncomfortable with the covenants you are making.
Tricia, don't claim to be Evangelical because we won't claim you. I don't think there is a single denomination that teaches it is ok to steal money from someone else and then plea-bargain their way out of it...
Tricia, Tricia, Tricia... (sigh) You have no business touting your own honesty after what you and your fake talent agency did.
I don't choose to be a Mormon either (and yes, I was one, and I was Temple-married). I decided I disagreed with the church and no longer attend or follow. But religion has no place in the government of the United States. I would much prefer logic, good sense, and justice.
You are an idiot, end of discussion.
Andrew,
I was once a Mormon. What tricia writes is true is it not? Is it not true that prior to the 1990 changes, the LDS temple ritual involved the taking out of penalties that involved the slitting of the throat and bowels? It's available online for anyone to read, so there is no way you can disprove that as a FACT. The FACT is Mr. Romney has sworn allegiance, has "consecrated" everything, to the LDS church. It is a covenant he made in the LDS temple. Is that not true? Americans need to know what this man has done, because he seeks employment from "we the people". We have a right to know what he does, did and believes, because he is seeking public office. If he doesn't like the scrutiny, he should bow out of the race. What Tricia has written is the truth. Why do Mormons become so unglued? If the Mormon temple ritual is indeed "god ordained" than why hide it or get angry when it is exposed? Mitt is going to have to deal with this, as he WILL be scrutinized by the American public and media. We have that right, since we are the EMPLOYER and he seeks employment.
Regards,
Amen!
Yes, but even facts can be distorted in dishonest ways.
You and Tricia have taken the commitments Mormons make in the temple out of the broader context of Mormonism. For example you have not bothered to mention that protecting the freedom of conscience of all people is a fundamental tenet of Mormonism–an article of their faith. As is supporting the cause of freedom, being an essential part of Gods plan for his children. No one has anything to fear from the comitments Mormons make in their temples. Any objective observer who has done even minimal research into Mormon beliefs would know that.
Very well said Andrew, thank you for posting. Tricia, you need to move on. If you don't want to be a Mormon, fine. Is it really necessary to dedicate your life to bashing on a religion you no longer belong to? Oh wait it is, because how much are you making off each book sale? You are doing this for the purpose of profit only. What a disgusting way to live life.
What it disturbing and disgusting kate is how you and other LDS become "un glued" when anyone even remotely critiques the Mormon church. Wow. This says something to the rest of us. The truth can handle scrutiny. What are you afraid of?
Regards,
God Bless America,
since the advent of the internet, the mormon church membership has begun to decline. People can now read the truth about the mormon church. Tricia's book is another good example of that. Many people get angry seeing the mormon secrets out in the light, but remember there are thousands of mormons who are full of doubt – books like Tricia's only help them see the truth. I know because I know many, many people who have left the church – sometimes they just need support from the outside.
If you see how people react to this book, its the same way mormons react if someone they know wants to leave the church. So, you can see why it is so hard to leave – you are attacked by family and friends. Its tough to leave, but people flourish once they escape.
Well said Andrew! Tricia-"You can't leave the Mormons alone! You're obsessed! And don't say you feel for them or you love them (again another word-for-word instruction from Hugh). Give it up...go live your life to it's fullest. Do something noble. Be a Christian. Follow Christ's example and just be nice. This is not nice, no matter how much you convince yourself you're doing the right thing." Here's two of us for thinking this obsessed anti-mormon should give up "researching" something she doesn't believe.
Mormonism, unlike the Catholic faith of President Kennedy, is a totally FALSE religious system based on Masonry, begun by a polygamist and con-artist named Joseph Smith. Don't be naive, CHECK IT OUT! for yourself. It's pretty disturbing what these Mormons believe, especially those married in the Temple Ceremonies as Mitt and his wife were. They appear to be nice people, but they're lives are based on a BIG LIE. They believe that they are literally Gods equal to God the Father. I'm not joking. Don't believe the Mormon apologists. Check it out for yourself.
i would like some clarification on the violent nature ..... " I cannot explain to you in a few words here just how completely violent, mind controlling and alarming these ceremonies are"
Tricia also wrote, "I can't stress enough how truly alarming these ceremonies...are."
Tricia, its irresponsible and disrespectful of you to make these kinds of claims and accusations without offering specifics open to discussion. You assert you love Mormons - please offer us your respect in addition to your love or it will continue to come across as shallow. Bushman is right, the ceremony can be accessed online. Mormons are not the boogie man. You continue to dishonestly represent my faith and it's frustrating to say the least.
Laura,
I am a former Mormon, and temple endowed. Tricia has spoken FACTS and truth. Prior to 1990, the LDS faithful who attend the temple and are endowed, make covenants. They were placed under a covenant that if they revealed the token and signs of the priesthood they would have a penalty - that penalty was the slitting of the throat and the bowels...... this is FACT. It was part of the temple endowment ceremony prior to 1990. Tricia is not mis representing your faith as you say, but she is stating the FACTS. I know you don't like to hear this, but it is the truth. May God open your eyes, and may you see the TRUTH clearly before you.
GBA, please refer to my other posts. No one has denied these oaths used to exist but rather that they no longer part of the temple experience now. Tricia has made several claims in her original interview and in her blog posts that are in many instances non-factual, in other instances decontextualized, and still in others distorted versions of how Mormons would describe their beliefs. That is what I am referencing when I used the word dishonest and I have addressed many of her claims in other posts.
I went to one of these "mind controlling" ceremonies just last week when my nephew was married in a Mormon temple. Vows were exchanged. Promises made. Counsel given to the young couple on succeeding in marriage. I left wanting to be a better person and a better husband. It is sad to see something which we feel is special and sacred denigrated by those who don't understand or worse, by those who hate and despise Mormons in the guise of "setting us straight" or "helping us to come to Christ." I love my Savior as much as any Lutheran, or Baptist, or Catholic, or ....
I cannot explain to you in a few words here just how completely violent, mind controlling and alarming these ceremonies are .......... what are these violent ceremonies
Why do you care what Mormons do in their temples anyway? What business is it of yours how they choose to worship?
I don't care what you do when you go to your church, or if you go to church at all. It's your life–live it. Let the Mormons do their own thing without asking questions about their personal beliefs and practices unless you are interested in living it yourself.
why do we care about the temple ceremony? Because Mr. Romney is running for the highest office in govt in this great land. We as the people of this nation have a right to scrutinize his life and his beliefs and values! If he had not run and made himself a public figure then he could live his religion privately - but he has become a public figure and wants to become even more public - Americans have the right to know what makes this man " tick", and what his values are. Mr.Romney continues to engage in secret rituals , steeped in Masonic traditions and yet is unwilling to openly discuss them. Does that not concern us? Absolutely! Is it not a fact that Mr. Romney took out covenants that he would "consecrate his time , talents and energy to the LDS church?" Yes, he had indeed! He has been placed under penalty of the slitting of the throat and bowels if he speaks about the tokens and secrets hanshakes made in the temple. This is all deeply disturbing and concerning. He is seeking office as a public official, and we the people will be paying his pay check! So yes, as the EMPLOYER we most definately have a right to probe and question what he does.
GBA- you make a valid point. You should certainly scrutinize Mitt Romney's morals before deciding to vote for/against him. If you feel his religion is a pertinent aspect of that, then by all means, research his religion. But if I wanted to know about, say, the Catholic church, I wouldn't read the fragmented rantings of an ex-Catholic who has devoted years to finding the flaws of Catholicism. All I would learn is how badly Catholic beliefs can be misinterpreted by someone deeply out of touch with Catholicism. Instead, I might try talking to an actual practicing Catholic- preferably one versed in sharing Catholicism to those unfamiliar with its precepts. Giving you and others the benefit of the doubt, I'd say you all just want to know that Mitt Romney can be trusted to make impartial, responsible political decisions. So you want to learn about Mormons? Why are you reading the misinterpreted, fragmented rantings of an ex-Mormon, who has devoted years to finding the flaws of Mormonism? Instead, please speak with an actual, practicing Mormon- preferably one versed in sharing Mormon precepts. You can request just such an opportunity at http://www.mormon.org. At least, that's the logical, unbiased course of action.
re mayflower.... my apologies.... i guess asking someone to clarify what they mean when using the word violent when referring to mormons is is wrong on my part.... idiot
A very important thing to understand when it comes to Mormon doctrine is that God teaches "line upon line, precept upon precept." In other words, God doesn't just come out an explain everything about the universe all at once, because we would not be able to understand it, and we would reject it as nonsense. God teaches us a little bit at a time, and adapts the teaching to the audience. Jesus Christ exemplified that with his parables. He taught in a way that would be understood by those who were ready to understand ("he that hath an ear, let him hear."), but would still be a good story to those who weren't ready. In the 1800's, the people who received the temple endowment ceremonies needed to understand the gravity of the covenants they were making with God, and that those covenants mustn't be taken lightly. The highest penalty they could think of was a violent death. It is no different than a child being stoned to death by his parents if he talks back, according to the Old Testament. So, there were penalties associated with each covenant made in the temple in order to convey that importance. As society progressed, those penalties were no longer necessary, and they were removed from the ceremony. That is what Ms. Erickson was referring to as being "completely violent."
So...just as soon as you guys feel murder is "necessary" again, you'll start it right back up with no problem, right?
I'm not sure if you even had a point with that comment... what does murder being necessary have to do with anything? You really think that we're taught to slit people's throats if they break their covenants? Well, you're very wrong about that. Like I said in another comment, the penalties were symbolic of the spiritual death that you would suffer if you break your covenants that you make in the temple. It's as simple as that.
Cheif,
I am a practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon). I'm unsure what Tricia is talking about in her interview about violent ceremonies. I go to the temple regularly (once a month) and have not experienced any sort of violence there or in any other meeting of my church. If you want to know more about temples and the ceremonies held there, please do not go look to these comments for answers. They are full of mistrust and misunderstanding. Here are a couple of links that I suggest you glean information from:
Why we build temples: http://www.mormonchannel.org/video?lang=eng#!-x_-TQivCx8&
Temple FAQ: http://www.mormonchannel.org/video?lang=eng#!-x_-TQivCx8&
I have been raised in the LDS faith and have had a period of apostasy from it, but it was something I went back to, not because it was familiar or because I have been brainwashed, but because I believe it. Good luck in your learning!
This woman makes me sick. Another ex-Mo with an axe to grind goes around being all superior and condescending because she "saw the light." Great. Live your life and let others live theirs without condemning them for choosing to live their own life.
i think the writer has as much right to slam the mormon church is she wishes as you do to talk about her....
Agreed! Every right! Ex-Mormon for a reason. It's no different than talking about an Ex-husband. Perception is reality and we all have the right to our opinions based upon our personal experiences. Except those who are weak and stay married becasue they have becom co-dependent on the situation. lol
Does Tricia make you sick because she spoke the truth and exposed the darnd hiddn secrets of the Mormon temple ritual? I find it interesting how Mormons become unglued when the light in shown upon their secret acts. If the Mormon temple ritual is such a good thing, expose it for the world to see, shall we? Mr. Romney has made oaths that requires him to be penalized if he speaks about them outside the temple.... that penalty is the slitting of the throat and the bowels.... is this kind of behavior something we wish a future president involved with? I say not!! America has a right to now, since he is bidding for president. The FACTS need to be exposed. Period.
Those who say that if the temple ceremonies and rituals etc. of the Mormon Church are so harmless, they ought to be exposed to the world for judgement– are you actually serious? Have you spent any time thinking that through to some logical conclusions?
By that logic, if you run for public office, the public ought to be able to essentially watch a streaming broadcast of you and your home every second of every day. We should be able to see how you wipe your rear after doing your business, because if you get crap on your hand you are a slob and we don't want slobs running our country/state/city. We should be able to see how you make love, because if you are a selfish lover with premature issues, we need to know because we can't be having undisciplined folks running our country/state/city.
You make a mistake if you say that this is different. How is private religious practice and belief different from any other privacy issue? Think long and hard before you answer that, because so far all you have done is prove that you have nothing of any significance to say so far- because your conclusions make zero sense beyond your world view.
Now, as for this idea of an oath of some kind in which throat is cut and disemboweling takes place, symbolically, er... has this happened to the former mormons on this board?
Wait for iiiiiiiiiiiit... the answer is no. Has it happened to anyone else?
Nope.
I personally think that is an odd, odd oath and ritual, but it certainly gets the point of the seriousness of the rituals in mormon temples across.
Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise therof. You would like to prohibit free exercise of this man's religion essentially by holding hostage a public office he is seeking. Again, think long and hard before you argue here.
As a final note of interest, George Washington, one of our finest presidents and whose character, shockingly, is pretty unassailable, was a practicing Christian. Anglican/Episcopalian for the most part. He, as did other prominent families, bought a family pew in several congregation houses, even serving as a member of the vestry. He participated, when he attended, fully in the rituals of the Episcopalian church in Virginia at the time. They practiced then, and many congregations still practice, Communion. Wine BECOMES the blood of Christ and the wafer BECOMES the flesh of Christ.
Did you want to impeach Washington, then?
She doesn't paint an accurate picture of what happens in the temple. She makes it sound lurid and evil and it's not. It's not easy to understand, but it's not what she said.
You are so full of anger over something you only think you understand...let the love of the Lord fill your heart...He really does live ...does love us all...and will comfort ...yes, even an angry person....
BLOOD OATHS came out of a violent period of American frontier history and culture. They have been completely abandoned by Mormons - though you can imagine how difficult it would be for a religious group to simply change their sacred rituals - you will not find them in any Mormon temple ceremony today.
Blood oaths have been "abandoned" by Mormons . . . hmmmm . . . and here we all thought the temple endowment ceremony was given by revelation as an eternal lesson to all mankind. Another fine example of uninspired male leadership in Salt Lake City, tampering with Joe's real Mormon church in 1998. The protestant minister Lucifer-puppet is out as well. Can't have all that bigotry and prejudice against Christian churches juicing up the Mormon brain cells!
Revelations in Mormon history always have a historic and cultural context. This is a church that has always believed in and sought continuing revelation to respond to the climate and needs of the here and now.
I'm still waiting for the revelation that clarifies 'hot drinks' to mean coffee and tea. Until then, it's just the opinion of uninspired men more interested in building shopping malls, Hawaiian resorts, raising cattle, growing nuts and developing misleading PR campaigns. Heavens, that could mean 14 million Mormons are living in sin if it also includes hot chocolate.
Hyrum Smith, the older brother of Joseph Smith, gave that clarification shortly after the Word of Wisdom was extended as a commandment.
Scan...you people are amazing....talk about uninspired....if you seek you shall find the truth...and it is in the Gospel of Jesus Christ...the Bible and the Book of Mormon are witnesses of His reality...the Stick of Judah and the Stick of Joseph...learn scan...learn
Laura ~~
I kindly would like to point you to some sources for your study and research.:
http://www.utlm.org
http://www.irr.org
http://www.mrm.org
Blood oaths, were first introduced to the LDS people in the Nauvoo time period. This is the time that Mr. Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, became involved with Masonry. The masonic "craft" involves the taking of blood oaths and penalties. They were introduced to the Mormon people, and were continued until 1990. It is deeply disturbing that a man who seeks the highest public office in our land is involved with such. We , the people have a right to scrutinize his life and his beliefs and his religious practices. If he does not like it, then he should bow out of the public eye.
The “execution of the penalty” for disobedience at the time Mitt Romney took out his “temple Endowments” was demonstrated “by placing the thumb under the left ear, the palm of the hand down, and by drawing the thumb quickly across the throat to the right ear, and dropping the hand to the side.” It is hard to imagine that well-educated Mormon men of such political stature like former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, Utah Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah or Senator Harry Reid of Nevada could bring their thumbs to their throats and swear a blood oath that they will “suffer” their throats slit from ear to ear should they not “sacrifice all that [they] possess, even [their] own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God, as defined by the Mormon prophet.
Tricia, I believe your memory of the oath is clouded and inaccurate. It was not made in reference to any covenants made in the temple, but as a strong commitment to not revealing the contents of the ceremony to unbelievers. ...rather than do so (reveal the contents), I would suffer my life to be taken...
Taken word for word, not a penalty but a pledge. I'm certain you would still not agree with the oath, but at least keep accurate with what it is.
Expert: Mormon women less depressed. SEE http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-04-02-mormon-depression_x.htm
Mormon Women highest rate of depression: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4403731&page=1
Tricia, your post would more accurately be offered as "Utah Women highest rate of depression" and the Mormon theory is just one of many theories of which the USA today article I posted discredits
For what it's worth, the city of Salt Lake City has the highest rate per capita of po.rnography usage on the internet in the country according to an analysis of credit card usuage stats. This pattern also popped up across other highly religious areas in the south of the country and was lowest in liberal cities such as LA and NYC. Harp on that.
Luke, unlike the rest of the state, Salt Lake City is only 45% Mormon. How that stat factors into po-rn consumption, I have no idea.
Laura Skaggs
Only 45% Mormon you say? Only 45%! The rest of the country is in the neighborhood of 80% Christian and this one city has the highest po.rn consumption in the country. Meanwhile the city of NYC with its 9M residents has one of the lowest rates. Do I even need to explain remedial math to you?
Luke, there's no need to talk down to me if you want to make a point. Please re-state your opinion respectfully and I'm happy to respond.
Laura Skaggs
I'm not sure what part you don't understand here. The religion is very clear about po.rn, but the followers secretely pay for it on the interenet in such masses that they lead the nation. Clearly they don't follow their teachings. Who says they follow other things as well?
Well you look pretty silly. We can all google around and see who has the highest rate. In fact I just did and Google tells me it took them 0.19 seconds to return that Asian American teen girls have the highest rate of depression – http://newamericamedia.org/2011/05/asian-american-teenage-girls-have-highest-rates-of-depression.php
Where did all your money in research go to???
OFFICIAL MORMON POSITION ON POLITICS & PUBLICLY ELECTED OFFICIALS
SEE http://newsroom.lds.org/official-statement/political-neutrality
I am a Mormon, and I was surrounded by very antagonistic anti-Mormons growing up. I have done a great deal of research into the claims of anti-Mormons, and have read many of their books. I understand how Ms. Erickson could feel as she does, and I understand that thought, but I can tell you with absolute confidence that no one who actually understands the doctrines of the Church, and knows the meaning and symbolism of the temple ceremonies would ever be able to misrepresent them as Ms. Erickson has. The temple ceremonies do seem strange if you do not understand what is being represented. The penalties described have no special significance, and were removed long ago when it was no longer necessary for the audience to receive. We believe in Christ's invitation in the New Testament to "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect" and that it is only possible through the Atonement of Jesus Christ because we "all fall short of the glory of God." I would not vote for Mitt Romney because of his religious beliefs, I would vote for Mitt Romney because he has the experience in fixing broken organizations that we need from a President right now.
I hate to break this to you, but religous beliefs or not, Mitt Romeny is a part of the problem – not the solution.
I totally agree! I'd much rather see Huntsman get the nomination! Obama vs. Huntsman would make for a wonderfully civil debate of ideas!
How so? I see a very intelligent man with the ability to fix the problems in Washington that have led us to the current situation. He knows how to balance a budget and get us out of the impending default that Obama has put us in. He knows what works and what doesn't when it comes to health care reform, and he can fix the very dangerous situation that ObamaCare will create in the very near future. He is the only candidate I see who seems to be running because of what they can do for the country, not what the country can do for their career.
Amen, Katrina!
I think that the underlying issue isn't religion, but what damage a long-standing set of delusions will do to a person's decision-making.
That the delusions in this case happen to be religious in nature is really besides the point as far as I'm concerned.
And I AM concerned!
Oh lellimecnar, you are speaking "Mormon Speak" and if you knew the truth about this false religion you are involved in your would run like the wind from it. Your salvation is not through this false religion. Read the truth about the religion in my book, and then get back to me.
Based on what you said in this interview, it is nothing new. Don't pretend like my religion has brainwashed me, and that I'm just spouting out the stuff they teach me. Like I said before, I have studied the anti-Mormon arguments for more than half of my life, and I have found nothing to be concerned with. You tell me Tricia, what was it that made it so perfectly clear to you as a 9 year old that Mormonism was so utterly false? What doctrine did you have such a hard time believing that you became "enlightened" and set off this crusade to disprove Mormonism and "save" all Mormons? Cause, honestly, if Mormonism isn't true, then there must not be a God or Christ, because every other Christian church I have come in contact is full of crap. The Bible is not the ultimate source of truth, it is a manifestation of the ultimate source, which is God. It is the writings and prophecies of God's prophets, not the literal word of God. I believe that God continues to speak to His prophets, and that Joseph Smith was no different than Moses in his day. If I thought any higher of Joseph Smith, there would be a problem, but I don't. I believe that the temple ceremonies are purely symbolic, and that the things that go on in the temple will not be understood without understanding the symbolism behind it. That is why there is a level of "secrecy" surrounding the temple ceremonies. We are not ashamed, or secretive. Everyone is welcome to attend the temple, but you have to be prepared. Someone who just walked into the temple off the street, and participated in the temple endowment would have no idea what was going on. They would be obligated to keep the covenants they made without understanding what they meant. That would be like baptizing an infant who has no idea what baptism means.
If I had received a free copy of your book, I would read it, but I don't think it would be appropriate for me to financially support the effort to undermine my faith, and spread the anti-Mormon agenda any farther than it has been already. I would love to discuss the points of your book with you, Tricia, but I won't be purchasing it.
Baptizing an infant bothers you when you guys baptize dead people? Are you serious? Do dead people now know what is being done to them and can make the choice of accepting it?
Are you full of crap or what?
You obviously don't understand the doctrine of baptism for the dead, which is also spoken of in the Bible. We do not baptize dead people. It is called baptism FOR the dead, not OF the dead. We are baptized "for an in behalf" of someone who has died, and yes, they do have the ability to choose whether or not to accept that baptism. In Christianity where not being baptized means damnation, it would be cruel for God to not give a chance to those who were born in remote parts of the world, or in places where Christianity is unknown. Baptism for the Dead gives those people an opportunity to learn and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the next life.
Then why isn't there a baptism FOR babies? Or are you still so blind that you cannot see the hypocrisy?
What on Earth would be the reason for baptism FOR babies? If they die before they turn 8, then they don't need baptism. Children are innocent, and are incapable of sin before the age of 8. If they live to the age of 8, then they can choose to be baptized. I don't see the reasoning to even suggest the need for "baptism FOR babies."
@marylou, baptism is for the remission of sins, Mormons don't believe that babies have the capacity to sin and therefore do not require baptism.
Do Mormons believe in Original Sin?
Do we believe in original sin? Yes and no. We believe that we are born into a sinful world, but a newborn baby has done nothing wrong and is therefore innocent. We do not believe in a God who would punish all of his children for the acts of one man (being Adam). We believe that without the Atonement of Christ, yes, a newborn is doomed, because he or she will eventually sin, and without the Atonement, there would be no way to repent. However, because Jesus Christ did perform the Atonement, any actions of a child are forgiven because they aren't old enough to understand their actions. To quote an article of our faith, "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression." and another: "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel." And here is a short explanation of ordinances: "We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."
@lellimecnar
"We are baptized "for an in behalf" of someone who has died, and yes, they do have the ability to choose whether or not to accept that baptism."
If someone has died, how are they able to chose whether or not they want to be baptized?
Also, how do Mormons justify the baptism of thousands of Jewish Holocaust victims, when multiple Jewish organizations have asked the church to stop? IMHO, that is the most disrespectful thing one person can do to the memory of another person. You are disregarding the life of a person, and the choices they made and died for by superimposing your beliefs onto their memory.
Not really wanting to spark a conflict, just searching for answers...
lellimecnar,
You said, ‘That would be like baptizing an infant who has no idea what baptism means.’
Baptism is a gift, a gift of the Holy Spirit; an infant does not need to know the meaning of the gift but those asking for the gift for the baby know what it means. Parents are guardians of their children and what parent does not want the Holy Spirit residing in their child’s soul? Knowing the meaning is not what is necessary to recieve the Holy Spirit but faith in Jesus Christ does. Just as the Centurion asked Jesus for healing of his servant; by the faith of the Centurion, Jesus healed the servant; likewise, by the parents faith in Jesus Christ, the gift of the Holy Spirit is granted by Jesus Christ to their child.
Baptism washes away Original Sin and any sin that one may have on one’s soul. Needless to say a baby has not sinned but the baby, just like the rest of us have inherited Adam’s sin…as the Bible tells us: that by one man, humanity suffers two things, death and sin; and by the justice of One Man, Jesus Christ, we are justified.
read:
Romans 5
For if by one man's offence death reigned through one; much more they who receive abundance of grace, and of the gift, and of justice, shall reign in life through one, Jesus Christ. Therefore, as by the offence of one, unto all men to condemnation; so also by the justice of one, unto all men to justification of life. For as by the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners; so also by the obedience of one, many shall be made just.
"Original Sin," according to your definition, is a false doctrine. What sort of loving God would punish every one of His children for the act of one man? Now, in a sense, "original sin" is real, because we are all born into a mortal world. Because of Adam's transgression, we all will die. That is a fact, but Jesus Christ was resurrected so that we too can be resurrected. That is a gift that we do not have to earn. We will not be judged by the actions of our parents. That will be answered upon their own heads. Adam repented of his transgression, and he was forgiven. Mankind ought to forgive him too.
How could a newborn infant possibly have sins upon his soul? You honestly mean to tell me that a newborn child is capable of sin? Do you not understand what sin is? Sin is willful rebellion against the commandments of God. A baby doesn't even know the commandments of God, so how could he disobey?
Now, your reference to baptism as a gift of the Holy Spirit. You misunderstand the difference between the baptism of water, and the baptism of fire. When you are baptized by water, you must first repent of your sins (as taught in the Bible). A baby has no sins, and therefor has nothing to repent of. Once you have repented, you covenant with God that you will take upon you the name of Christ and keep his commandments. In return, your sins are washed away. Once again, a baby has no sin, so there is nothing to wash away. Furthermore, a baby who cannot understand the covenant they are making cannot possibly enter into such a covenant.
After we are baptized of water, we are "baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost." This is the gift of the Holy Spirit that you refer to. This is the promise that we will always have his Spirit with us as we live accordingly. The New Testament tells us on many occasions that this gift is given by the laying on of hands, and that the Apostles were the only ones who held the authority to do so. It also tells us that a baptism without the gift of the Holy Ghost is good for nothing, and that person must be re-baptized.
So, baptism is an ordinance that must be performed by one holding the authority to do so. The gift of the Holy Ghost is a gift that is bestowed according to our worthiness, and is given by an ordinance just as baptism. This does not mean that the person performing the baptism or giving the gift of the Holy Ghost is actually giving those gifts, they are given by God at that time because he recognizes the authority which He gave to that individual to administer that ordinance.
Tricia, please help me to know why do you feel your book with help me and others know that the Mormon church is not a true church and why we need to run from it. Being a daughter of a Bishop doesn't mean you know every thing about the Mormon church. I have friends whom there father was a Bishop and they never claim they knew everything about the Mormon church. If you feel sorry for the Mormon people than why don't pray for them to be free. In having conversation with my Mormon friends in regards to what you dad said to you as a little girl. That has nothing to do with his membership in the Mormon church. It has to do with where your dad was brought and what he learned at home with his parents. Please, make correction to your statement of your dad's action.
I am a Mormon. I have gone to the temple. I have seen all the practices in the temple. I have not seen any violence. I have been to 15 different temples. 30 different church houses. Not once in my life have I seen any violence....??? Go figure.
It's my understanding that not all temples are the same. Just as not all chruches are the same. I'm a Christian, and I've been to several Pentacostial, Baptist, and non-Denominational chruches. I can tell you that some of those places I would never go back to again because of scary and crazy rituals. No Thanks.
Hi Katrina,
The structural layout and architecture of Mormon temples may differ, but the rituals performed within them are all exactly the same in every Mormon temple around the globe.
While each temple may be laid out or decorated differently, the ceremonies that take place in every temple are the same. Read my earlier comment toward "chief" for an explanation of the "violence" of the temple endowment ceremony.
You obviously didn't have a temple recommend prior to 1998 when the ear-to-ear throat slitting and disembowelment gestures were finally removed from the blood oath portion of the endowment ceremony. It's a far more family-friendly place now. You also missed out on the Protestant minister puppet of Lucifer's who uttered Anti-Christ apostasy from every Christian pulpit.
Meh, I went through before the 98 changes. The "blood oaths" you speak of were a promise to not do what Erickson has done here (air out parts of the temple script to shame or discredit the faith). Rather than do so, people said they would suffer any form of persecution. It wasn't a threat that if they played the Erickson card they were going to get Joe Pesci'd in the parking lot. As this part of the presentation was sometimes misunderstood, it was removed as a distraction. People who understood what they were doing were not filled with heebie jeebies. That said, I'm glad this stuff was removed.
Boil it all down and the temple is a place where people leave behind the regular world to engage in ceremonies that remind them of the kind of person they should be: sober, clean, honest, faithful, compassionate, generous and true to their values. To people who bring a spirit of devotion to what they're doing, it's a deeply moving experience. To others, it's boring. To still others, it's proof that Mormonism is a cult. I tend to fall in with those who find the whole thing boring, but I've known plenty whose faith is renewed by faithful temple attendance. Good for them.
Daryl,
With the invention of the internet, the violent secret ceremonies got out and the PR folks for the church have been scrambling ever since to cover them up. You are in a very false religion and I hope and pray that you will give yourself the permission to come out of it and into the real Jesse’s arms.
False religion. Hehehehehe. Wow...hehehehehe. Phew. I lost my breath there Tricia.
Hate to break the news to you, but LDS temple ceremonies have been available on the Internet for just about as long as there's been an internet. There's been no "scramble" to cover up any "violent secret ceremonies", since 1998 or ever.
Ms Erickson is a bitter lost soul. Whom are YOU to judge which faith is "False Doctrine"? I did not see any theology studies in your resume. There is only one way to find out which faith is "TRUE". When we get there, then we can fully discuss that faith's merits. You conviently leave out the good the LDS faith has done in the world. Emergency assistance in KATRINA, hungry folks being fed! Strong family values? Man, the Mormons really are evil.
As a convert, a former missionary, a graduate of BYU and the spouse of a Mormon wife I married in the temple, I have to laugh at Erickson's haunted-house version of Mormonism. I, myself, am no longer active, precisely because I have ideas that don't fit into the faith I embraced at the age of 17. But you don't need a haunted-house escape to simply move on with your life. If you don't like Mormonism, find something you do like. Erickson evidently believes that she can only escape her faith (which she grew up in as a bishop's daughter) by finding it to be some kind of unnatural disaster.
Nonsense. Wake up, Tricia. You and Hugh Nibley's daughter are trying too hard to be accepted outside the faith. People will like you even if you don't pant between descriptions of your Mormon life. Porter Rockwell has been dead a long time and Donny Osmond has sworn not to kill again. You're safe, lady. Take a breath.
I don't go because it bores me. I don't believe because my faith has come up short. But my wife is still a very ardent and faithful member and I'm lucky to have her. If she were half the fanatic you paint, she would have ditched me a long time ago.
No matter where I go, no matter what I do, I'll always "be a Mormon" in some unerasable way. I don't drink. I don't smoke. I feel bad when I get a ticket. I love my kids and I feel guilty when I'm not sharing my life with them. Mormonism has greatly improved the quality of my life, and I've found a tremendous amount of love and dedication among the Mormon faithful.
If I could make Mormonism better, it would be to take everything with a grain of salt. There isn't a Mormon scripture that doesn't teach something important and useful about life, as long as you approach it looking for wisdom and counsel in making good decisions. The craziest stuff you could summon up, out of your embarrassment in being connected to this faith, is perfectly fine when you approach it as a story designed to inspire better behavior.
Methinks you've basically wigged out. Years from now, after all of this has run its course, you're going to discover that you got way too worked over everything. Maybe, then, it was good for you to break from the faith. If you can't see through it, if you can't take it in the spirit in which it was given, you're better off without it – at least until you come to realize that faith isn't about belief. It's about living.
These guys got you so rattled you forgot the name of your god? Who's Jesse? I know I wish I had his girl!
What in the world possessed CNN to post such a diatribe? There is no "news" here. This is the same dogma that has been leveled against the Mormon Church by radical Evangelicals and former Mormons for decades. What credential does Erickson have to evaluate one belief system against another? CNN is not a theological society. There is an obvious political agenda at work here to mock Mitt Romney in the name of news. Shame on CNN. What a discredit to their news reputation.
CNN posted this article because it is the TRUTH. FACTS are what counts. I am sorry if that offends you as a Mormon. But the truth still needs to be spoken and the secrets exposed.
If CNN spouts the "truth", where is the expose on the POTUS attendance at the American hating churchof REV. Wright? or the fact that Barrack has communist ties to weather underground terrorist? I guess it's truth by convenience.....nice.
These are not facts. These arguments have been hurled at the Church for many years, and there continues to be no validity to them. Any religion seems strange to those who don't understand it. Christianity is no different. If you didn't understand the Atonement of Jesus Christ, then you would think that most of what Christianity does is strange. Ms. Erickson has only repeated the same things that countless anti-Mormons have said before her. She obviously didn't understand the doctrines of the Church, and the purpose of the Temple when she had her temple endowment, and freaked out because she didn't understand what was going on. That caused her to doubt, and so she did some "research" (if you want to call it that) into the misunderstood aspects of Mormonism, and decided to leave the Church. There's nothing true or even factual about the message she is sharing with America.
I commend Tricia for stepping forward and being "honest" in her concerns about our nation's future and possible leadership. I see no hate or disrespectful language from her words. I see an American who gives a "personal" heart felt plea to share her concerns for the reader's consideration. Regardless of whether one agrees or not, it's her rite and responsibility as an American who cares to step forward and share her convictions. We need more "Tricia's" to take such action instead of sitting on the sidelines on their butts complaining about those who do. It has nothing to do if we agree.... It has everything to do with getting involved.
I agree completely, Chicago boy!! Tricia did a wonderful job and it is her right and responsibility to speak out and be honest, transparent and truthful regarding the agenda of Mormonism and it's secret rituals.
Wow! When I try to say stuff like that to Christians, they usually look at any criticism as extremely rude yet they will turn right around and do the same thing. Christians of every stripe are suffering from mind-control methods developed symbiotically throughout known history. Labeling the unknown with untrue labels has been the cause of every religion known to man ever since we got a DNA upgrade. Still buggy, this version of humanity. We don't need delusions mixed in with our thought processes. We have enough problems, many of them caused by religion in the first place!
I was a Latter – day Saint for many years. I can testify that what Tricia states about the Mormon temple ritual is true and accurate. Prior to the Spring of 1990, LDS who attended the temple would be placed under an oath, that if they revealed to anyone the temple tokens, names, etc they would be penalized. The penalty was the slitting of the throat and the bowels. This was the penalty that all faithful Mormons were placed under, prior to 1990. Those penalties have since been removed, but I assure you - that this was indeed the case prior to 1990. Do the research and find out for yourself, as the temple ceremony can be read online. The Mormon temple ceremony is masonic in nature, as Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism was a mason himself, and introduced the craft to the LDS people in Nauvoo, Ill. in the 1840's. Don't be fooled folks, Mormonism is not in any shape way or form, another " Christian denomination". It is a Cult. Read, study and find out for yourselves.
Interesting conversation going on here. I keep reading about how "slitting throats" etc was part of the doctrine prior to 1990 (or 1998 depending on whose post you read). Is there one name of an LDS church member who cut their own throat or disembowled themselves over breaking the covenant? I am not a Mormon, nor am I particularly religious. I did spend quite some time with members of the Church of Latter day Saints while looking for a "religion" that made sense to me in lieu of having a "feeling" of salvation that I do not truly have. I appreciated alot of the basic concepts of the Mormon church but they lost me at the part where the golden plates were buried in New York state when the rest of the Jesus stuff was happening in the middle east. I couldn't quite wrap my head around that. Very much like in the bible (I checked out a number of idifferent faiths) when I got to Leviticus and found out that I could not sleep in the same room with my wife for 1 week out of the month or we would both have to die. Or when I found out that if I wore clothes of blended materials, both my wife who made them and the animals that provided the material would have to be put to death. There is so much symbolism , in all religions. Use a little common sense. What happened to "Judge not lest ye be judged"? Does a vow of celebacy apply only to relations between a man and a woman? Why convict someone based on interpetation of symbolic ritual instead of hard fact? The thread of this conversation is so similiar to the ones I remember about Clinton being a Babtist, Bush being a Born Again and Obama being a Muslim. It is all a matter of opinion. I am not a Romney supporter, at this point, but if he gets elected, I will not be afraid. We managed to survive Jimmy Carter (barely) we will survive Romney....if we have to.
Dear GodBlessAmerica.
Whoever you are, I thank you for fighting this battle with me and for bringing the light of truth to the lost.
Tricia
I'm sorry that you weren't properly prepared for the temple endowment, and I am very sorry that you weren't able to appreciate the endowment ceremony because of it. If you had been prepared, then you would have understood the context of the penalties, and their purpose, rather than running away from it as you have. I wish that you could have had someone to ask questions with and receive explanations rather than jumping to conclusions. You cannot honestly say that the temple ceremony is violent. Did you see any examples of the throat slitting during the ceremony? Did you see any disemboweling? I think not. The temple endowment is very Christian, and very enlightening if you are in the right state of mind. I'm sorry that you weren't able to have the experience that I have every time I attend the temple. And by the way, the penalties were never part of the "doctrine" of the temple. The only part of the temple ceremony that doesn't change are the actual covenants. Everything else is there to teach you something about the Plan of Salvation, and the reason behind the covenants you are making.
Thanks for the publicity, Tricia! There's no such thing as bad press where Mormonism is concerned. This will make lotsa folks curious enough to find out more for themselves. Whenever you kick Mormonism, you only succeed in kicking it upstairs. A suggestion: you may want to look for new arguments; all of these have been used many times before, each with the same predictable outcome: More converts.
Solomon, they are not arugumets, they are facts. I know that you think your salvation depends on Mormonism, but the truth is that Mormonism cannot save you....and could even keep you from going to heaven. The Bible is the word of God. The Book of Mormon will lead you elsewhere....but certainly not to God. Be careful, your very salvation is staked on it.
I say this with love and concern for your eternal future.
what a nasty unchristian thing to say to someone and then to say you said it out of love!!!
Out of love and the almighty dollar. I wonder, in order to serve your lord and be granted salvation, have you ever worked on the Sabbath? Have you stoned disobedient your neighbor lately? Have you cast a woman with short hair outside the city walls this week? What say you?
It is said that to save one from a mistake is a gift of paradise. Her heart is in the right place and she knows whereof she speaks.
Any Mormon should be ashamed at what they do, just like any religious believer.
Where will the Bible lead you? To murdering your children if they don't behave? Cause that's what the Law of Moses teaches. The Bible is the Word of God, yes, but not in the literal sense. The Bible can't save you any more than the Book of Mormon can. Only Jesus Christ can save you, and he says that you must first be baptized. How are you baptized? Why? When? These are questions that the Bible doesn't fully answer. Jesus gave his apostles the authority to baptize, so apparently authority is important. It seems that the baptisms in the Bible were always done in pretty large bodies of water rather than a small basin, and it seems that they were immersed, so baptism by immersion seems to be the proper manner of baptism. But what is baptism for? What does it represent, and what does it do? Why do we need it other than because Jesus said so? I'm not sure if you can find complete answers to these questions in the Bible. If you could, there wouldn't be so many different manners of baptism among the different Christian churches. If the Bible was the way to salvation, then there would be no point in having churches at all. Everyone would just get a copy of the Bible, and as long as they had a copy in their house, they would be saved. The Bible itself teaches that the Bible is not enough. Common sense teaches that the Bible is not enough. You need authority, and you need leadership, and you need "the keys of the Kingdom" that Jesus Christ gave to Peter. You need the authority and the leadership to guide the followers of Christ in the right direction.
Richard Bushman said, “To my way of thinking the idiosyncrasies of Mormon belief and practice are not the issue; Catholic belief in transubstantiation and Protestant belief in the Resurrection can be made to look silly, too.”
I have never seen transubstantiation or the Resurrection made to look silly…but I have seen the people who try to do so made to look silly.
Tricia Erickson said, “They are trying, through good works, to be perfect, "even as their Father In Heaven is perfect", which no man can achieve. That is why Christ came and died on the cross so that we could be forgiven of our sins because it is impossible to be human and sinless.”
Only through Baptism can we be made perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect…because it is Jesus Christ living in us who is perfect and it is He who does the work that is good…not us. We would not be asked to be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect if He did not provide the Way.
The Book of Mormon has strengthened my faith in the divinity of the Bible. They are companion scriptures, not mutually exclusive.
My wife credits Ed Decker's “The God Makers” with planting the seeds that led her to look into the Mormon church, learn about it first hand, and eventually to convert.
It is a good point about there truly being no such thing as bad publicity. Anything that gets people to look into what we are really about, ultimately helps us much more than harms us.
There's a quote I read once, long ago, attributed to Brigham Young, that I recently have tried and failed to find again. The general thesis of it was that it is the truth and light and power of the church that provokes the Devil to raise such an opposition to it, and to lead such people as Ms. Erikson to attack it with such fury. If we were not true, then Satan would have no reason to bring so much opposition against us.
In lieu of that quote, which I cannot find at this time, I offer a similar thought, not quite so powerfully or profoundly expressed by Jonathan Swift:
“This evil fortune, which generally attends extraordinary men in the management of great affairs, has been imputed to divers causes, that need not be here set down, when so obvious a one occurs, if what a certain writer observes be true, that when a great genius appears in the world the dunces are all in confederacy against him.”
Tricia ~ God bless you! You did a fantastic job in exposing the "secrets" of Mormonism. You will get flack from LDS on this, but it only goes to show that they are defensive and scared. Keep speaking the truth! So happy that you have been set free from the bondage and falsehoods!
Thank you so much. I did this out of love.
And you are charging for it too.
...of $.
Don't mind them, Tricia. Writing a book these days is not usually all that lucrative. Most people are too busy to read a book these days. I hope you make lots of money. You're a good writer. You should get paid for that. And if it's for a good cause, then that's a bonus. They are just angry you know what you're talking about when you reveal their crimes.
Any criminal would feel the same. Nobody likes to get caught.
Didn't you hear, since she was 9, Money = Love
Tricia
I only have 2 questions that i am sure everyone here would love to get your response. 1st You keep saying you are only doing this out of love. Does that mean you are not making any profit on this book and are just giving them all away to anyone interested or is this for profit?
2nd I am sure everyone would love to hear more about your scam and the details of that just to clear the air
thx cant wait for your reply
Bruno
No one is mad. They are merely pointing out the hypocrisy of "doing something for love" and "charging for it" while "promoting it on CNN."
What? You can't do both?
Then tell me, when you work to support your family out of love, you are doing it for money, right?
Hey, look, you're doing something for love and getting paid for it. Like loving your job.
I really do wish you would think a little further before complaining like that.
I do not attack entire groups and sects of human beings, calling them less worthy of other sects of humans while propagating my own particular religion while simultaneously blurring the lines between government and religion for a living. Other than that, we're on the same page.
I know many Mormons and you are sensationalizing the religion to sell your book. Jim Gibbons is Mormon and was the previous governor of Nevada, as are both senators from Nevada. People in Nevada know Mormons and chose to vote in Mormons because they are comfortable with them and respect them. You appear as a born again Christian radical. I prefer persons who are more moderate and sane. Once anyone becomes a radical, they lose all respect for everyone else and lie and sensationalize against anyone who is different for them. You just want to sell your book. Go spend your time trying to help others and create peace and love. Your book appears as total lies and trash.
This book and many of these comments on here are what give religion in America a bad name. I have met many people who associate with being Mormon, whether they are culturally Mormon or strict in their religion. I even have a few gay Mormon friends. I have seen Mormons elected into office in many of the places that I have lived and it worked out fine. I do not think that most Mormons are extremists like the author is. She appears hateful and bitter and this book does not appear to be fair or use proper research or have any academic qualities. I have to stand up for my Mormon friends and label this book as unfounded hate speech.
Tricia believes in a 2000 year old fairy tale & complains about people who believe in a 200 year old fairy tale. And her chosen fairy tale is SOOO peaceful, without a history of violence or tyrannical & delusional leaders or persecuteing other beliefs or brainwashing masses. Actually, that's not just Christianty's' history, its the present too.
Sorry potential leaders, get in line to have Tricia judge you & cast the first stones – just like a good Christian would.
Big condemning words from someone whose got nothing and nobody.
Bottom line, you've also got nothing and nobody. You have willingly embraced the delusion that you have a caring, personal relationship with the Great Sky Fairy. We've ALL got nothing and nobody up there. Examine your holy book critically. Then study comparative religion. Study history and science. Engage in free-thinking. Ask yourself questions about god that you never dared to ask before. Is it better to face reality or to live semi-comfortably in a brainwashed fantasy?
Strange, you blog post does not make me feel loved like I do when I am in the temple. It is the most overwhelming feeling of love and peace I have ever had. I am sorry that through the temple you missed the transcendent beauty and feelings of deep love and saw only certain symbols. Having gone through the temple many times in my 43 years as a Latter-day Saint, I have never once felt threatened or afraid of what occurred in any of the temples I have attended. Your words do not frighten me. You think you are exposing the Church as some evil, corrupt organization. I have never experienced the "impossible" expectations you refer to, only the love of Jesus Christ trying to help me become a better person. I am so much happier in the LDS church than I ever was out of it. My life before I become an active Latter-day Saint was very difficult. The gospel has changed my life. I am thankful for what the LDS church has done for me. And I love the temple.
Happiness does not equal salvation. You can be happy and "feel good" all the way to a place you do not want to end up in. I can be "happy" while I'm drunk on alcohol, however, it destroys my health if I drink too much of it.
You see, that's the Mormon Churches’ "hook". Good family values, a built in social network of Mormon friends, mind controlling ceremonies of drinking the cool-aid all the way to the Mormon Bank, at the cost of your salvation. Mormonism does not get you saved.
There is way too much at stake here.
Why not post your book online for free then Tricia? It seems like you are able to support yourself in other ways given your listed credentials.
There is a vast difference between the buzz alcohol creates and the joy of being forgiven of my sins.
Tricia, I think the scriptures support the idea of salvation being a state of happiness. Isaiah taught, "Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation (Isaiah 12:3) and the Psalmist wrote, "Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation" (Ps. 51:12). If salvation does not bring happiness then what does it bring? If something leads to lasting joy, then it is good. The world is filled with empty, quick fix happiness. Nothing in life that is worth having comes easily. Jesus Christ taught us to deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow Him (Luke 14:26-28). In the parable of the pearl of great price, He taught us that we should be willing to give up everything to receive salvation (Matt 13:46).
Yes, Tricia, donate your book so we can all learn to be saved via your worldview. I am poor and do not have access to a library.
The "Mormon Church" teaches that you receive salvation by repenting of your sins, being baptized, and keeping the Commandments of Jesus Christ. How is that any different from what the Bible teaches? The difference that you are talking about in this interview is in what happens to us after we are saved, so what difference does it make to you? We're both aiming for the same thing, and trying to get there by the same road, we just differ in what we'll find when we get there. The doctrine of deification doesn't come from the Book of Mormon, by the way, it comes from the Bible. Just look up Theosis on Wikipedia, and you'll soon find that the Bible has always taught that we are children of God and "joint-heirs with Christ." So, perhaps it is you who should re-assess your belief in salvation according to the Bible.
Yeah, post this for free. If you truly love those Mormons, put your own money where your mouth is. Alas, you won't because you are exactly what you try to discredit, someone who is trying to change someone's religious views but asking for money to do so. NOW THAT IS IRONY RIGHT THERE. You claim the Mormons are brainwashing their members and charging them to do so and you are trying to un-brainwash them and charging them to do so. Another example of markets and capitalism.
Tricia,
Can you cite any examples of mormon public officials betrayed the interests of the electorate because of their belief systems? That seems to be your thesis, yet you do not provide any evidence that this has actually happened. This is why I and many others question your sincerity here.
Check out http://www.babyselling.com. Ask the father's who have had their children taken from them how they feel about Utah's adoption laws.
You're right Trish. There is so much at stake here. And many stakes will probably come visit you in the lower kingdom where it looks like you will likely be spending eternity in. Happily, there is still time to repent Alma-etta the Younger!:)
oops-grammatical error-sorry! The sentence that included the words "Where you will likely be spending eternity" was not supposed to have the word "in" at the end of it. But while I'm back here anyway-have you noticed all the contention here Trish? Remember "And you will teach them not to contend with one another, and serve the devil who is the author of all sin" That Book of Mormon gem is instructive. Are you trying to pick a fight to justify your own choices? Look really deep in your soul-I double dog dare you-and see how much of this is "I want to save everyone" and how much Is "I want God and everyone else to agree with me so I can go on doing things that may not actually bel pleasing to the Lord-like being super prideful for example"? You know the world needs a lot of help. Poverty and sin are running amuck. Are you really going to spend your precious energy trying to derail a group of people that are trying harder than most to get soem good done here on the earth? If you really love your brothers and sisters, how about serving in a soup kitchen? Or getting the heck over to Sendai? You're immaturity is showing when you bash in the name of "saving others" to justify your own pride. Come on Trish. You know So much better. Pray about this. I think He's been trying to reach for awhile here. You've just been on the phone with "the other guy". He confused Eve too.
@ Tricia – How is that you are an expert on salvation?
I am not, but the bible is. You do not get saved through a church or a relegion. You are saved by accepting the REAL Jesus in to your heart as your personal Lord and Savior. Not the "Elder Brother" "Flesh and bone" Jesus of Mormonism.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house
The LDS church teaches and accepts all three of those scriptures. They are in harmony with LDS doctrine.
Would you call baptism and repentance "works"?
Tricia Erickson
The Koran says the same exact thing. Therefore, we are left with a mere coin flip as to which teaching correctly leads one to salvaction according to your own logic. That religion is merely a matter of geography, your theory of salvation collapses in on itself.
Furthermore, the bible very clearly states that Jesus was the son of the creator, while the Koran states that those that follow Jesus are damned to hell. These two books, which claim to be the word of the creator, are not in harmony. Therefore, you must disprove the claims of the Koran while proving the bible true in order for your salvation theory to hold water. Since you can do neither, you have no bearing on what salvaction is or how it would be attained.
First of all – because this is the only comment of mine that you might read – what a bunch of hateful fear-mongering all of it is. All of your statements indicate that you understand something of the LDS faith but it is plain that you neglect and/or reject much of the sensible context upon which those beliefs are based. Most of the statements you make fail to present the principles in their natural and appropriate context. So you have, like others before you, painted a picture that is aimed to shock rather than inform.
Second of all – everybody throws around the word 'truth' as if they are the authority and I find it pretty atrocious. Certainly the truth about any issue is not to be succinctly defined by any one person's experience (or by any one group's experience). Presenting a fraction of human experience and calling it the only truth is... typical. I have experiences that carry their own weight – just like you or anybody else – and it seems that they each lead us to very similar conclusions regarding eachother's background. Anyway.
Thirdly – and my purpose for replying – how can on Christian who is an expert on the real Jesus be any less of an expert on salvation? From a Christian standpoint – that I think we both share – one must be an expert of both or an expert of neither.
The Bible doesn't save you either. Anyone who thinks that all they have to do is read the Bible, or Book of Mormon, or go to Church every week, and they'll be saved has a really big surprise waiting for them on the other side. To say that Mormons place their salvation in their Church is quite silly, to be honest. The only thing our Church has to do with our salvation is the Priesthood authority to baptize, which the Bible says is necessary for salvation. Why is it necessary? Well, we also have prophets who receive revelation from God just as Moses did to explain those things. We believe whole heartedly that our salvation is only through our Savior, Jesus Christ, and that no church leader can fill that role. We have leadership in the Church just as the Apostolic Church for the purpose of the ministry. We saw what happened in 350 AD when there were no Apostles or unifying leadership in the Church: the Council of Nicaea. What good came out of that? The Catholic Church, and all it's dark age doctrines and practices. The Kingdom of God has always had organization. (and no, the Kingdom of God is not the Church. The Church is merely the earthly organization of the Kingdom of God) No book, organization, or action of our own can save us except for Jesus Christ and His Atonement. I think we all agree on that. And yes, we do believe that we are all sons and daughters of God, and that includes Jesus, who is called the Son of God, so yes, we do believe that he is our brother. That does not diminish his role, however, since he was the only one who was able to perform the Atonement, and he alone stands next to the Father.
This was the first general council in the history of the Church since the Apostolic Council of Jerusalem, the Apostolic council having established the conditions upon which Gentiles could join the Church. In the Council of Nicea, in the year 325, "the Church had taken her first great step to define doctrine more precisely in response to a challenge from a heretical theology."[ [Arianism].
Google: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htm for the full story…………..
I'm sorry, CatholicMom, but Arianism was the true doctrine that Jesus Christ and all of his Apostles taught which was attacked and condemned as heresy by Athanasius, a very wicked man who murdered those who disagreed with his unscriptural interpretation of God. The first council of Nicaea in 325 AD was the true beginning of the Dark Ages, as it absolutely destroyed man's relationship to God, and replaced a loving Father in Heaven, His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost with the very "unknown and unknowable god" that the Apostles of the New Testament warned about.
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
lellimecnar, please, read historical docu-ments....
Athanasius upheld the Truths of the council at Nicaea against heresies! There were those who opposed the Trinitarian way of thinking which the Holy Spirit and the Bishops in concert with the Pope were brought into discussing and affirming at this council, as promised by Jesus Christ… He said He would bring the Church into Truth, the fullness of Truth, as we can bear it.
John 14:26
But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.
Those were words spoken to the Apostles and meant for them and their successors….for how would these Truths be known if there were no successors throughout history? Yes, the Apostolic Succession assures us that whenever the Holy Spirit wishes us to learn fullness of Truth, He will do as He promised.
And you speak of a Pope at this time when there was none. The Roman Emperor Constantine was the only leader, and he had no authority from God to organize a church. Before 325 AD, Christianity was nothing more than a group of bishops without authority bickering over interpretation of scripture. If there had been any sort of Apostolic succession after Peter, then there would be no room for argument. The Apostles would have told the council which doctrines were correct. They would not have argued, fought and killed to prove their point.
There is no support whatsoever for the false doctrine of the Trinity, as described by the Council of Nicaea. That is why most churches today do not believe in the Trinity as described by the council. They believe in the Trinity (or Godhead) as it is defined in the Bible.
Tricia:
John 8:11
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Why did Jesus say this if our actions didn't matter?
Don't our actions reflect where our heart is?
Your actions speak loudly. Even still, I'll trust God to be your judge. I hope that you will extend this humility to those who belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
While i am not sure this book will sway anyone, i want to know if Tricia saw "The Book of Mormon." Being a liberal Northeasterner, I I knew little about LDS prior seeing the show. Afterwards,I decided that LDS was no less or more nuts than many of the other religions out there. Many religions have weird or disturbing rituals. If i couldn't vote for anyone who believed, there would be no one left to vote for.
Ironically, a profanity filled Broadway show may do more to help Mormons against hate filled tirades than anything else.
thankyou Mark......ditto to everything you have said.......I know my Savior Jesus Christ loves me......I have felt that love countless times, in the Temple, at church , everyday, through pray and nothing and no one willl ever have me deny that fact....I love the gospel too..........I love reading the Bible and the Book of Mormon.....both books are the word of God and both books have within them, answers to help myself and family iwithn our lives........ I'm happy to live my life the best I can ...respecting others and their beliefs......always being grateful for all that I have, acknowledging my Saviors hand in my life and the lives of those I love ......Jesus Christ is at the centre of my beliefs, I love Him
No book or anti mormon literatue is going to shake my faith not ever and I have read a fair bit of anti Mormon literature and it doesn't phase me at all...........
Tricia, you needn't have waited for someone else to write this book. Many already have. There are volumes of anti-mormon literature dating back nearly 200 years. You are late to the table. Your book will not add anything. The debates have already occurred. All there is remaining is to bait the mormon haters and bigots so you can take their money for personal gain.
Your interview reaks of Mormon bashing contrary to your protestations. I am struck by your intolerance of a fellow American religion. We are a nation of many faiths and we worship side by side and respect one another. This is unique in all the world and history would teach us that it is the reason pilgrims and colonists came here. Your holier than thou lack of respect for those not of your particular brand of faith dishonors our consitutional religious freedoms. You are free to believe as you want as are every American and no one's religious beliefs should preclude them from public office. Now while you choose to destroy a fellow American's opportunity to serve, and by extension bring down his church, there are others in the world who would do the same to all of Christianity. Are you better than them?
I have a dream that the day will come when we all realize that there is no need for religion, and we truly will be able to overcome our differences, and evolve into smarter, intelligent beings. While you evangelicals sit around and try to convince everyone that the earth is 6239 years old, whatever other stupid dogma your gods tell you.. Truly enlightened people are creating artificial organs (first trachea using stem cells was successfully implanted in a human), artificial life, and other marvels of science. A lot of this, by the way, is happening outside of the US...thanks in part to radical conservative Christians like this woman. There will come a day when mankind will realize we dont need your false gods, and we will be able to solve man kinds problems through true innovations. I don't care if Romney worships the moon and swears allegiance to Mars.. If he restores our scientific standing. Unfortunately, he won't.. Because his god won't let him.
This works until you hit the death bed. Many "atheists" sing a different toon when faced with eminent death.
Yes.. Again just mouth what your gods told you, because you have no ability to use your own mind. Here's how an intelligent person would respond – I have no idea what happens after you die, and neither do you. You just know what some e from the middle east made up 2000 years ago. But, rest assured there are scientists working on creating an artificial brain, and the question of what happens after you die. Until then, accept that we're all just worm fodder after we die.. It saves you from parroting a bunch of made up nonsense.
tune
In the LDS faith, science is viewed as a good thing, and science and religion are believed to go "hand in hand". We are encouraged to pursue truth wherever we can find it, whether that be in science or religion or both. Mitt is one of those who strongly believes in American restoring its emphasis on science and math in education. I am LDS and believe strongly that science and religion are compatible if one is flexible with regards to natural history. Personally I believe the earth is as old as modern science thinks it is. That doesn't prevent me from believing the Bible. It just means that I am flexible in my beliefs about earth's history, and that there is much that we don't know regarding the nitty gritty details of human history. So don't lump all religious believers into an "anti-Science" category. The most enlightened people are those who treat the beliefs of others with respect, and don't waste their time trying to find fault with and misrepresent and pre-judge the beliefs of others that are different than their own. This goes for the athiest who ridicule the religious beliefs of others as well as the religious believer who ridicules and attacks the religious beliefs of others.
Finally! A sane post among this insanity! I can go back to work now.:)
For some of us reading about which cloud God, is the correct cloud God in itself is disturbing. I prefer NO fairytale God's influence in the White House. Religions are written and designed for men, by men, and to serve MEN. If it gives you the guidance that you need to have a fulfilled life, then you are lucky to be so simple minded. For those of us that face real life and challenges everyday, we see how obviously ridiculous it is to rely on the supernatural for answers to unanswerable questions. Church and State MUST be separate for a truly free society. Freedom FROM religion is as important as freedom OF religion. No one has the ability to really know....
One third of our founding fathers had seminary degrees. Again: This works until you hit the death bed. Many "atheists" sing a different toon when faced with eminent death.
Tricia Erickson
So? They were slave owners as well, but we moved beyond that knowing they were wrong about their stance on owning humans. Same applies here. You don't have a leg to stand on.
Patricia,
Uh, it's tune and imminent. For a "writer" you are remarkable illiterate, as your responses are rife with misspellings and grammatical errors.
I wonder if you would comment on the inclusion by the Founding Seminarians of Article 6? "No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
Tricia,
I ave never read your book so will not comment beyond your interview remarks.
My problem with your argument is that you seem to base it on the idea that the LDS faith is irrational because it isn't a mainstream Christianity. You repeatedly use phrases that Americans should be aware that there is a difference in the basic beliefs of the LDS and other forms of Christianity. The problem with this is there is an underlying assumption that mainstream Christianity has somehow less irrational. I don't make any judgment on the relative rationality of either set of beliefs but since you do there in a burden of proof on you to demonstrate this using logic and critical thinking. I don't see this in your argument.
The one attempt at using science you make is to refer to a 2002 L.A. Times article on per capita depression prediction drug ordering per state. From that you make some very specific assumptions about rates of depression and causality. When I looked at the article I found the company that conducted the study I went to a set of psychology and social work databases that I have access through my PhD program. I could not locate a study that would likely be the one indicated in the L.A. Times article nor could I locate it using a general web search. If you have access to the actual study I would like to review it but from what I can tell the study did not actually differentiate by the faith of the individual taking the anti-depressant. This means you can not validly determine that there is any association between faith and anti-depressant use. Even if it did do this it would have to control for all other major factors to make any association. Once you did this that still does not prove causality. There is a commonly used example in graduate level statistics courses to highlight this need. When ice cream sales increase crime also increases. Does this mean ice cream causes crime? Maybe but I would guess if you gave 1000 people ice cream and 1000 people no ice cream the crime rates of those individuals would not differ. If you look into it further it seems both are related to responses to temperature. Criminals stay inside during winter and people eat less ice cream then. Another example of bad science, this time using religion as a subject, is a study that showed that evangelical Christians were more likely to be child molesters and commit domestic violence than those who are not evangelical Christians. This was a popular assumption at one time. The problem was that the study was terribly flawed. It didn't look for other commonalities between those that committed these acts and those that didn't. When that was done a stronger association was found between those who held extremely patriarchal views as compared to those who didn't, regardless of faith. It is dangerous to use poor science to describe religions.
Your one reference to science is, at best, the same thing as blaming crime on ice cream sales.
Agaiin, This works until you hit the death bed. Many "atheists" sing a different toon when faced with eminent death.
Your response makes no sense and doesn't actually address any of the points I make. I don't really think you are the actual person in the article either.
Many?
Name them. And cite your sources. Most you read of are falsehoods sprung up by believers to distort factual history. Furthermore, when approaching brain death, humans can lose control of their thoughts and previous stances on even the most basic things. That is why Christopher Hitchens when facing a deadly cancer was outspoken about not believing things he may say when pumped full of chemo and pain killers and laying on his deathbead.
The note by Henry is important. While the use of anti-depressants is somewhat higher in the state of Utah and, perhaps, among LDS women, there is another theory out there that the actual rate of depression among LDS women is about 10% less than the national average.
It has also been postulated that LDS women might use more anti-depressants because they are better-than-average educated and are aware of the benefits of such medication. I would also add my observation that LDS women are quite open-minded and less constrained by public opinion. They have a built-in support group.
I'm so glad Tricia came along and wrote this book. Now, 13 million of us crazy Mormons can finally realize that we've simply been brainwashed all these many years. I mean, Romney really looks like a brain-washed man, does he not? What would we ever do without you, Tricia?!
I was also wondering, if Mormonism is as controlling as she says it is and Tricia truly has made "blood oaths" in the Mormon temple, how did she ever escape alive!
Mark, I was wondering the same thing! I guess all those other people who told the secret are six feet under somewhere.
ha ha good post Jane
quite often walk around with a brainwashed expression on my face!!! There I was thinking it was lack of sleep, now I know 
got to have a laugh !!
Ha ha, good post
If someone can honestly believe that the only reason people believe differently is because they've been 'brainwashed,' they might want to find out if they've been brainwashed themselves.
Awesome... I just posted that on my Facebook (after a little tweaking) so I never forget it. That is a very good point. I find it ridiculous how quickly people jump to "brainwashing" when they encounter someone with different beliefs. They obviously don't understand what it takes to truly brainwash someone.
Christ would be ashamed of this hateful bickering and divisiveness. I find no precedent for Tricia's behavior in the Scriptures. Especially talk of damnation of those who are "deceived". If I am tricked into believing something that is false, or am not even born where I can know of Christ, I will not be condemned as you say. You seem to think Mormons are the only ones who will be saved – tell us how many non Evangelical Christians will be saved. What percentage of the world's current and historical population is that??
Mormon Temples reflect our belief that anyone can choose to accept baptism in the next life. It is offered as a choice just as it is here. Temples are a symbol of our belief in Christ's Resurrection and the universality of his sacrifice.
I am sorry you saw repression in those that you loved – it is not what Christ taught. However, your hatred and seeking revenge will not make it better for you.
Tricia, exactly how many former Temple Mormons have been killed by Mormon posse's for breaking their "blood oaths"??
Like that even matters. Get a clue.
Their point is that the penalties of the old temple ceremony was meant to be symbolic. You will die a spiritual death if you break the covenants that you just made. Spiritual death means separation from God. The penalties were meant to convey that message. The fact that no one's throat was actually slit for breaking their temple covenants proves that it is not literal, and illustrates how ridiculous it is to "expose" something that you don't understand.
This woman's websites could have been created by a twelve year old in less than 60 minutes. I have doubts about her true credentials.
It would be funny if this Tricia Erikson had nothing better to do than troll a CNN message board for seven hours.
So, Peter / Lenny, all you can come up with are some cheap shots?
Tricia,
Why are you so angry to those people who believe in Jesus Christ? And to those who believe that Mohammed was a prophet of God? You are as ignorant as your face looks like. You probably have a GAF of less than 10. Sorry, you probably do not know what a GAF is, we use it in Psych. Indeed, your face looks miserable as your IQ is. Sometimes I wonder why do we have to contend with people like you. Spend your time productively. I bet you have not gone to any other country outside the US. You should, so you can see how people live their lives if they practice their faith and religion without bias and prejudice from people like you who do not know what Physics or Calculus is all about. I pity you. I sure bet you do not even have a boyfriend. Get a life Tricia!
Wow, even your name is a lie.
If you're no good at golf, run around telling everybody how stupid golf is.
Golf? You think religion is a game?
MaryLou
I don't find religion to be a game per se, but rather a very profitable business. A business that pays no taxes.
So now we see your true motives!
You are one of the fakers who are just in it for the money and don't care how you get it, like lying for it.
And you see Tricia as an obstacle to your swindling people out of their money!
Disgusting filth, you deserve nothing. You lie, cheat, and steal using religion as a tool.
Hanging is probably too good for you. I hope you get caught.
Bruno
You want to hang me because I think religious organizations are run like a business which in fact, do not pay taxes. You want to murder me for my opinion which is supported by evidential fact? Bruno – Xanax...live it....learn it.
Here is some real truth about religion.
There is no way to discern who honestly believes in a "god" as opposed to those that do not yet pretend that they do for money or power / influence.
Just think about that for a moment:
The biggest pathological liar could become a religious figure / leader and simply let the money roll in from those who cannot tell they have a criminal in their midst. No way to tell at all.
You know why?
It's because religions and believers require NO PROOF that someone is lying about their faith.
If you cannot get any proof (and you can't because your "god" does not exist ), then anyone can say anything at all with the most evil of intentions and they will not be questioned or examined beyond the limits of dogma.
Consider that real loophole in all religions: No proof needed for any part of the religion.
This, then, is the safest haven for any criminal who is willing to use a religion to get what they desire, freely and easily.
Being such an obvious haven for criminals, religion draws them like flies. They are all over the place in every religion man has ever made up.
The history of religion is overflowing with criminal behavior.
It is a magnet for crime and protects the criminals with the fake authority of the "god" without proof of any sort.
They are given free rein to do whatever evil deed they think they can get away with under the color of the religious authority that is made up out of thin air.
Fabricated. All of it.
And who is so simple-minded that they would think liars had nothing to do with creating the religion itself!
Within these religions:
Ritual becomes hypnosis.
Indoctrination becomes slavery.
And tradition becomes LAW to rule them all with an iron fist.
Such is religion.
The "after death" thing is just a way of "deferring" the justice they would feel in this life. That it also does double (triple, etc) duty as a method of fear-mongering, panacea, and "all encompassing" iron fist of the fraud itself, should not bother anyone who cannot face the truth of the matter. If you have been suckered in, you will be const-itutionally incapable of facing anything that could lead to questioning the "faith" that has wrapped it's tentacles around your mind.
Religion is just another way to make slaves out of free people.
You religious people are slaves for the most part, chained to the engine of greed, lust, etc, desire for money and power and locked in by your need for acceptance within a group of any sort. Most humans have a deep need to "belong" to a group.
These are very primitive emotions and very powerful in some people.
And humans are vulnerable to false information in a big way.
Criminals take advantage of this to conceal their crimes.
Many criminals seek to hide their crimes, not just the ones hiding within a religion.
And religion requires no proof other than someone saying that something is so. The perfect fraud!
Tricks can show false proof, but no real proof exists as shown by all of human history, but that's okay, since no proof is required to "believe" in something untrue. That is how fraud works. False information to conceal the criminal activity of the fraudster.
Notice that it is ONLY untrue things that cannot EVER provide REAL proof.
I do not need to cover all of physics to test the assertion that there is a "god" who runs the whole universe.
There isn't even any proof that there is a "god" that runs a TINY piece of this universe!
There isn't any proof of a god even at the quantum level!
Face it, people, religion IS a fraud.
And another proof of that is in ALL the billions of false claims made by religions and "members", NONE of which has EVER been able to show any real evidence or proof to support these claims at ANY POINT at any time throughout known history.
That is ALL the claims made by religions throughout history, not just the ones we have now.
Not a single shred of proof for any of them.
Sounds like it's beyond a reasonable doubt to me.
Religion = proven false = fraud on a massive scale.
Religion is a lie. It is used by criminals because it hides them from investigation.
If money were not involved in any way, things would be so different, wouldn't they?
But the criminals would just seek it some other way. Their "god" is whatever they desire so much that they are willing to violate anyone and anything that gets in their way.
And they do not have to answer to anyone. They know religion is a lie. They don't mind it much, as it makes it that much easier to fabricate more lies.
Just interpret the religion to mean that you get what you want regardless of whether you actually deserve it.
Hey, that works pretty well, doesn't it? We see it time and again.
Every individual is "allowed" to interpret their religion the way they want.
Folks, you couldn't ask for a better set up.
Religion is the best of havens for criminals of all sorts.
But if you are a mental slave, you will likely find it extremely hard and painful to break those chains upon your psyche.
You have been hypnotized, not only by others, but by yourself as well.
Self-hypnosis is like an evil joke played by you upon yourself.
It tightens the chains until you cannot hardly do anything to free your mind, and those who use it against you must surely have laughed long and often at the comical spectacle of people turning themselves into mental slaves without knowing what they are doing!
And they probably laugh all the way to the bank, as well.
You are doing their work for them.
Their guidance will make sure you are programmed to do certain things, think in a certain way, make certain judgment, and so on, but for their benefit at your expense.
If you find some comfort in being a mental slave who gathers with other mental slaves, then you will probably fight me when I try to free your mind as I am doing now.
Fight against the lies.
Religion is a lie.
Religion cannot be proven true.
Free your mind by seeking the actual truth and not what someone or some book merely "says" is truth.
Examine it all if you can.
None of it holds up under scrutiny.
I suspect that's why so many atheists come here.
You not only need to be freed from the lies and the fraud of religion, but you need to be stopped from doing wrong and crazy things to others.
To save one from making a mistake is a very human and compassionate thing to do.
But you cannot base compassion on lies lest your false information skew your intent and you end up harming others or violating their rights.
Being a mental slave is a mistake.
For many, the mistake was in not examining what others told you.
When they were children, many had no reason to mistrust their parents who raised them in their religion and could not be expected to see any reason why such things should even be questioned.
Then they grow up and do it to their children. If you are a mental slave, the chains can be very strong and interwoven with emotions to such an extent that many cannot even imagine how it could all be safely unraveled.
Religion is a lie and a fraud. I have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that this is so.
I have written some of it here. Your mistakes are not always your fault if you didn't know any better.
That is why we do not try children as adults. They don't know any better and neither do most "believers."
I want to save religious people from their mistaken beliefs. The sheer number of different crimes easily hidden within relgion should be visible even to those who are mental slaves to their "beliefs."
Open your eyes and see that the truth is right there within you.
You cannot have real proof for what is false. Ever. I will fight lies until I am dead. Religion is a lie.
Ha ha ha!
This rant goes on and on and on making fun of people who believe in things without proof, and also goes on and on and on making accusations (of things he believes) without proof!
Oh the irony!
Ha!
This rant goes on and on and on making fun of people who believe in things without proof, and also goes on and on and on making accusations (of things he believes) without proof!
Oh the irony!
Where is your proof then? Let's see it! No, let me guess. You are just talking through your hat like Smith the con-artist.
How ironic! Your opinion isn't important either, "nobodyimportant.", since you do what you complain about!!!
Wow, Hazel! That is like something out of a book, too! Don't stop fighting against lies! Honest people are with you on that!
oops
Oh, the irony!
Who spends this much time hating and discrediting anothers faith. if you would of spent all that time studying and learning about your own faith you might be able to run for president too. it amazed me how someone can spend so much time discrediting something that 15 million people hold dear to their heart and then at the end call themselves christian. I am mormon and i am proud to be one. I will forever live to worship jesus christ my lord and savior. My concience will never allow to tear down anothers belief no matter how strong i disagree with that belief.
Hazel-
Well said. You obviously have well thought out position and presented it in a clear and concise diatribe. I understand exactly what you are saying. I am not sure that I agree with it but I appreciate your argument and will give it some serious thought. Thank you for at least for commenting here with fact and not conjecture.
Tricia has most likely never considered the similarities between present-day Mormonism and First Century Christianity.
Mormons’ theology is based on First Century Christianity, not Fourth Century Creeds. For example, the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) views on Baptism, Lay Ministry, the Trinity, Theosis, Grace vs. Works, the Divinity of Jesus Christ comport more closely with Early Christianity than any other denomination. And Mormons’ teenagers have been judged to “top the charts” in Christian Characteristics by a UNC-Chapel Hill study. Read about it here:
http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com
Those, such as Tricia, and Ed Decker, who would denigrate the Mormon religion, usually are mis-informed because First Century Christianity is closer to Jesus Christ’s teachings than Fourth Century Creeds. If they think Mormon temple practices are bizarre, they would find Jesus Christ's Temple teachings bizarre, as well because they are so similar:
http://NewTestamentTempleRitual.blogspot.com
Mormons have a better understanding of Christianity than any other denomination, according to a 2010 Pew Forum poll:
http://www.pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey.aspx
11 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence (including several presidents) were non-Trinitarian Christians. Those who insist on their narrow Trinitarian and salvation only by grace definition of Christianity are doing our Republic an injustice.
How can Mormons be Christians when they believe that they will become "gods" with their own planet? How can Mormons be Christians when they negate the virgin birth and believe that God came down to earth and physically impregnated Mary?
Mormons ARE NOT Christians. If you knew the truth about your own religion, you would know this.
God does NOT share his glory. This is a blasphemous and anti Christian doctrine....more...
I like" how Bushman explains it in another CNN interview Tricia, "Take the issue of getting your own planet, for example. Elder Price talks about a planet for himself and one for Jesus. Those are not really core Mormon beliefs. Mormon scriptures and Church leaders don’t say anything about people getting their own planets. The idea is more like lore than doctrine.
Mormons do believe in the principle of theosis, the doctrine that God wants humans to become like himself—in effect gods. That belief leads Mormons to speculate about creation. Will beings with god-like qualities have the powers to form earths? Perhaps, who knows?
There is no fixed doctrine on the subject. Mormons themselves joke about the planet business. But they do take seriously that we may grow up to be like Our Father in Heaven."
http://inthearena.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/27/richard-bushman-the-book-of-mormon-is-like-looking-into-a-fun-house-mirror-the-reflection-is-hilarious-but-not-really-you/
more of the same...
I always love how Anti-mormons and ex-mormons like Tricia use fringe or unofficial doctrines of Mormonism to prove its "unChristianity." This is pretty much the definition of a straw-man argument. Get some better material.
Tricia, we need people like you over on the Belief Blog to be a punching bag for us atheists. Are you game?
We have many people with very sharp tongues. Is your hide tough? The irony of pointing out one religion's insanity while in the grip of a second is, to put it mildly, incredibly outrageous and hypocritical, yet I value your good intentions much more.
But only if you're willing to get a different sort of abuse. Maybe when you get tired of fighting those nasty Morons you could visit us god-less atheists. We don't see many people like you there. We've chased most of them away, you see, with our truth against their lies. Come and defend your lies that you think are truth. Ignore the rude bits and you'll do fine.
So, God is so selfish that he wants to keep all of his children subservient to him so he can play with their lives through all eternity? The Bible itself teaches that we are the children of God, "and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." (Romans 8:17) What does that mean other than being glorified with Christ to inherit our own throne with God. No one ever said that we will supplant God, or take his throne from Him. He will continue to be our God, and He will increase in glory because of the glory that we receive with Christ. If you're going to bash Mormonism, I suggest you use something that isn't supported by the Bible.
Tricia, unfortunately, these are lies. Mormon Doctrine teaches no such things. I've been a member my entire life, and have never once been taught anything about having my own planet. LOL
I have also never been taught the other outrageous suggestion about Jesus Christ's birth. We don't teach or claim to know of any such encounter. I hate to even write about it because it's just completely inappropriate, but it has to be refuted.
I have been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints my entire life. I have never once been taught that God came down and physically impregnated Mary.
I have always been taught what it says in The Holy Bible in Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God
Tricia, you obviously did not read the link. For those of you who don't understand why theosis is a concept initiated by Jesus Christ in the 40 days between his Resurrection and Ascension, please read the following quotes from Early Christians:
Theosis Jesus Christ’s church must represent man’s potential correctly 1 Corinthians 8:5-6, Psalm 82, John 10:34
Divinization, narrowing the space between God and humans, was also part of Early Christian belief. St. Athanasius of Alexandria (Eastern Orthodox) wrote, regarding theosis, "The Son of God became man, that we might become God." Irenaeus wrote in the late 2nd Century: “we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods” Justin Martyr in mid 2nd Century said: “all men are deemed worthy of becoming ‘gods,’ and of having power to become sons of the Highest” Jerome wrote that God "made man for that purpose, that from men they may become gods." Clement of Alexandria said worthy men "are called by the appellation of gods, being destined to sit on thrones with the other gods that have been first put in their places by the Savior." Origen in reference to 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 said "Now it is possible that some may dislike what we have said representing the Father as the one true God, but admitting other beings besides the true God, who have become gods by having a share of God . . As, then there are many gods, but to us there is but one God the Father, and many Lords, but to us there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.” The Gospel of Thomas (which pre-dates the 4 Gospels, but was considered non-canonical by the Nicene Council) quotes the Savior: "He who will drink from my mouth will become as I am: I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him," (Gospel of Thomas 50, 28-30, Nag Hammadi Library in English, J.M.Robinson, 1st ed 1977; 3rd ed. 1988) For further information on this subject, refer to http://NewTestamentTempleRitual.blogspot.com The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) agrees with Early Christian church leaders regarding theosis.
To paraphrase Origin’s thoughts in the words of Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) Apostle, Bruce R. McConkie: "There is and can only be one who is supreme, who is the head and to whom all others are subject". Becoming like God is not saying we will ever be equal to Him, frankly we won't and can't He, and only He, will forever be worshipped by us.
The Bible is also man made... All religion is. There has never been, never will be, a messiah. Morality is deeply rooted in human experience and it changes with time. Religion was... WAS, humanity's answer to that which it did not understand or comprehend. With current understandings of our life and universe, religion is obsolete. Education is key. THIS, and only THIS is the key to our improvement, EDUCATION, and only candidates that know this deserve the office of the president.
No deeply Religious president that is able to understand this is worthy of this office... and unfortunately, most of the current public officials are incompetent in these matters.
Miguel,
I think it might be helpful if you considered that the word education means the cultivation of the person. A part of that cultivation may be formal "education" but entails all aspects of developing the human being, both in terms of classical intellectual disciplines as well as the broader aspects of a moral sense and one's role in a civil society. For you to be so hostile to any President who values religion is historically ridiculous since we have NEVER had a truly atheistic president YET. The Republic got started by men and women who believed in God and it has continued for two hundred plus years, being governed in the vast majority by men and women who make at least some claims of faith. So, your idea that NO ONE who sees religion as valuable has a place being President is simply ridiculous. We have never had a chief executive who is an example of your ideal.
Astonishing facts about Mitt Romney can be found at http://prolifeprofiles.com/romney. He ushered in $50 co-pay abortions in his Romneycare debacle, which actually makes Romneycare worse than Obamacare. If a presidential candidate will not stand up for the most innocent among us, then, simply, he's no good. If he would go along with the killing of preborn children, then what won't he go along with? If even a small child looked into a eagle's nest and saw eggs, that child would know those are eagles in those eggs. However, when pro-aborts speak of preborn children, they say they aren't human, but a blob of tissue. Hypocrites! Obviously, two human beings created their offspring so the offspring is, of course, human, a.k.a., a person. And Mitt Romney funds the killing of those little innocent preborn persons. For that reason alone he's not fit to be president. And being a Mormon, which means he believes, "As man is, God once was," also disqualifies him for the office of President of the United States. That's such a ridiculous notion that it doesn't even deserve discussing whether it's true or not.
So between being a pro-abort and a Mormon, Mitt Romney needs to just go away.
You are forgetting that the child is more likely to think of Easter eggs and breakfast. Those eagle eggs might taste good.
Bad analogy. If I could slap you upside the head, I would.
Actually, it's a perfect analogy. Pre-hatched eagles are eagles and preborn persons are persons. Pre-hatched eagles possess eagle DNA and preborn humans possess human DNA. At conception of the human being, 23 + 23 chromosomes combine to create a unique human being who has never existed before and will never exist again. At that very moment, facial features, hair color, eye color, height, fingerprints, mannerisms, etc., are all determined right then and there. Only a complete fool would believe two human beings do not produce a human being but something other than a human being.
A fetus is not a fully formed baby. And the DNA might be there, but the DNA is not a human being either.
Without proper development, that DNA will not even grow into a human being or even live.
I am all for protecting children, but a bit of growing tissue is not a child no matter how much you try to insinuate that it is.
Legal abortion is not murder. I would fight against illegal abortions, too, but I don't want to be associated with people like you in any way..
Bruno,
There is no difference with abortion between a legal or illegal abortion, they both kill babies. Everyone has the right to life but some who already ‘have been given birth’ just don’t care about someone who is not born yet but could be in a matter of WEEKS.
What kind of idiot tries to say that bird eggs are like mammal fetuses? Oh, his name is Scott Evans.
Mary Lou, I did no such thing. So that would make you the idiot being you could not understand my simple analogy.
Scott, you -just-got-done- making that exact analogy!!! You even defended the analogy by saying it was like a fetus!
Are you drunk? That was the analogy you used - "pre-born" eagles are like "pre-born" humans! Eggs equals fetuses!
Are you really that dense?
And what kind of crazy word is "pre-born"? You can't say fetus? Blob of tissue? Can you say "fertilized egg"?
A fetus is not a baby. DNA is not a baby. Someone else's uterus is none of your damn business.
And a bird egg is very different from a fetus. Eggs are laid and then incubate. Fetuses stay connected and grow much bigger than the fertilized egg before passing the point at which the fetus can survive on its own. Somewhere in there is the line between fetus and baby. Legal abortions don't even come close to threatening a baby.
You would kill those abortion doctors, wouldn't you? Why don't you go try on some nice vests? They're a blast.
Bruno, you said, ‘Someone else's uterus is none of your damn business.’ Your concern is for someone’s uterus over the life of a baby? What do you think a uterus is for? It is very compatible to having a baby in it!
Bruno, a newborn is not a fully formed human being, either. So it should be legal to kill them as well? Should folks born without limbs be killed because they are not "fully formed?" How about people who lose their limbs later in life? They're not "fully formed." If at conception we are not human beings, then human life is subject to the opinion of legislators and the courts with their own agendas. Hey, I know. Let's all allow Bruno to decide who lives and who dies from now on. So, Bruno, be careful what you wish for. Some congressman or judge may decide you're not fit to live one day. If one human life is not valuable, then no human life is valuable, including yours and your family's.
Scott, you -just-got-done- making that exact analogy!!! You even defended the analogy by saying it was like a fetus!
Are you drunk? That was the analogy you used – "pre-born" eagles are like "pre-born" humans! Eggs equals fetuses!
Are you really that dense?
And what kind of crazy word is "pre-born"? You can't say fetus? Blob of tissue? Can you say "fertilized egg"?
A fetus is not a baby. DNA is not a baby. Someone else's uterus is none of your damn business.
And a bird egg is very different from a fetus. Eggs are laid and then incubate. Fetuses stay connected and grow much bigger than the fertilized egg before passing the point at which the fetus can survive on its own. Somewhere in there is the line between fetus and baby. Legal abortions don't even come close to threatening a baby.
You would kill those abortion doctors, wouldn't you? Why don't you go try on some nice vests? They're a blast.
Bruno, stop and think. I know it could take awhile, but try really hard. It was an analogy to point out that a developing, un-hatched eagle is, in fact, an eagle, not a blob of tissue, the same as a developing preborn person is, in fact, a human being, and also not a blob of tissue. I wasn't speaking of the eagle egg. I was speaking of the eagle inside the egg. Get it yet?
Another person's 2-yr-old is none of your business so whatever you do, don't try to stop someone from harming their 2-yr-old. Just turn the other way.
I wouldn't kill abortion doctors because citizens are not to take the law into their own hands. Assuming is a very unintelligent way to debate, Bruno. It'll backfire more often than not.
Scott,
Your Bible is the source of the so called repugnant idea of deification of mankind through a perfecting relationship with Christ. The Bible is full of this idea. That is why one of the champions of this idea was Athanasius. Yes, the author of one of the major Christian creeds believed that God became man so that man might become god. Every time an evangelical tosses that stone at a Mormon it lands squarely on the head of one of the leading theological forces of historical Christianity. It is breathtaking to me how little many Evangelicals know about their doctrinal heritage.
This was an excellent article and I hope you continue writing. I can't wait to read this. I finally got out of the mormon church and if you do not know or have not experienced their dogma, then you cannot speak on this matter. Electing Mitt Romney would be a terrible mistake.
If Tricia is any indication, then even some who have experienced the dogma shouldn't speak on the matter... at least if they believe in honesty.
Could you explain that? I really don't get what you're trying to say.
She has lied a number of times on this very page. If she can't get the simple stuff right about Mormonism, then I can't assume her book will be all that accurate. It's like claiming to be a mathematician but not knowing what multiplication means.
Tricia makes several factual errors in her little diatribe against Mormonisms so called "secret rituals" She and Decker and a host of others made sure long ago that there was nothing secret about them. Like every single anti Mormon I have ever read, she inevitably presents a warped distortion of what she says she has inside knowledge of. I have never heard my faith accurately described by one of it's avowed opponents. No matter how much they claim to be presenting the unvarnished truth, their vitriol itself warps their presentation of the facts nearly beyond recognition. Here's a little bit of historical reality as well. Mormon's have served faithfully at EVERY level of government for over a century, including the military and there is not one single instance where someone can demonstrate that any Mormon turned his public office over to the "hierarchy" as these bomb throwers would like us to believe. Even the hundreds of thousands of businesses in this country owned and operated by Mormons are apparently not the property of the Mormon leaders. All this is bile over something that has never happened. Many Mormons including iy father have been federal employees. There is nothing in any Temple ritual that would cause a faithful Mormon to treat any public office as anything other than a public trust, just as any patriotic American would. Our jobs are not our property to turn over to anyone. Any idea of consecration is concerned with personally held and controlled property or other items. If this seems too bizarre to an Evangelical like Tracie, she need only read the book of Acts to find the same idea in ancient Christianity.
This woman is lying. She's lying about temple ceremonies. She's lying about pretty much everything. She is trying to pander to your need for drama, shock, and awe so she can make money. "I didn't want to write this book. I had to." Then why are you charging people for it? She is as intolerant as a KKK Grand Wizard.
If she is lying, where's your proof? No, it's more likely she's telling the truth. Lies like that would not be worth printing in a book if it were so easily refuted. Nope. To make money she just has to tell it like it is. The truth is usually stranger than fiction when you are talking about religion.
As one simple example, she claimed that two doctrines of Mormonism are mormons "get their own planets" and that "God came down to earth and physically impregnated Mary." Neither of these are official doctrines, nor are they believed by most mormons, so at least twice, she lied. Others will probably add more.
She doesn't have to tell the truth to get her point across. Most people won't take the time to learn the truth. All they do is read and believe. Once a person hears something negative about Mormonism, it becomes almost impossible to convince them otherwise, no matter how many actual facts you give them.
If the Book of Mormon and the LDS teachings are "so easily refuted", then why are people writing books trying so hard to convince people?
Why has the LDS church survived for 170 years against vicious persecution from every angle?
Why are there 14 million members and growing faster than most other religions?
Why do we have TWO very well educated, intelligent, and successful Mormon candidates for president and several Mormon members of congress?
Why is has the LDS church's membership continued to thrive despite so many attempts to discredit it over the past 2 centuries?
If it's SO EASY TO REFUTE the LDS church and it's doctrine, then why are you and people like you still trying to refute it?
Just because a lot of people have been brainwashed doesn't make the religion true. Popularity is not a basis for determining whether something is factual or not. Especially in religion.
I think the obvious point that jackson was trying to make is that if it so absolutely false, and so evil, then no one would ever believe it. The LDS Church is growing quite rapidly all across the World. How could that happen if it was so easy to refute? Especially when missionaries count on prayer to convince an investigator that it's true, not brainwashing tactics or coercion. In order to be baptized, and investigator should have prayed about Joseph Smith as a prophet, and the Book of Mormon as another testament of Jesus Christ, and have received an answer from God telling them that it is true. If that is our method of conversion, and it is false, then there would be no converts.
Books like Tracie's have been debunked one after the next for over a hundred and fifty years. The fact that yet another diatribe has been published is not evidence of it's "truthfulness". Every author of an Anti-Mormon book since the beginning has made the same kinds of claims and said the same things. It is rehashed half truth repackaged in a new dust cover and sold over and over and over again. As I read the excerpts, it was easy for me to spot several blatant misstatements. Any half hearted attempt at accuracy would have kept them from being printed in the first place. How can one prove to you that she is wrong about these things unless you know something about them yourself? Since you know nothing about them, you are willing to take her word for it? Every single thing she says is either out of context, inaccurate or stated in such a way as to exaggerate the readers reaction to it. Tricia is like so many Evangelicals who seem to have no idea what Christ and his Apostles actually said on important matters. She thinks Joseph Smith made it up. Why? because someone told her so. And on and on it goes.
So being she's lying, according to you, the Mormons are just going to let it go, right?
Exactly. It's called turning the other cheek. Sound familiar? There is an old saying. "A lie goes half way around the world before the truth gets it's boots on." If you have ever had a lie told about you, you know what I mean. Well, there is an entire industry made up of writing so called Mormon "expose's". These people find no shortage of audiences in Evangelical circles. When someone says something false about another person, the victim can either go on with their pursuits and let the truth be it's own defense, or they can wear themselves out chasing down every person who heard the lie in order to correct their perceptions. While individual members may take it upon themselves to point out inaccuracies in written materials, the Church rarely directly addresses them. It is called taking the higher ground. Did Jesus ever specifically address the idea that his father was actually a Roman soldier? Or that his miracles were actually cheap magician's tricks? I don't see where he wasted much time on it. He is our example. The fact he didn't bother to refute every single lie the Pharisees may have said about him didn't make the Pharisees right.
I know very little about Mormons. But if this book gives me facts I need for making a decision about a presidential candidate, then I will read it. I'm glad it has been written. I honestly don't think tricia is only after profit. Lots of people who have entered comments here have stated that her book is factual. God Bless you all and I pray all of you will come to know the true Savior because without a turn in this country, we will not continue to be blessed by God.
Religion shouldn't have anything to do with your vote for a Presidential candidate. If you want to know about what Mitt Romney would stand for as President, look at his track record, not his religion. If you want to truly know what Mormons believe, ask a Mormon, not a bitter ex-Mormon who only left the Church because she heard things she didn't understand. People like Ms. Erickson take the comments and opinions of individual people out of context, and try to apply them to the Church as a whole, and claim them to be official doctrine when they are not.
There is a big difference between factual and accurate. Sometimes Tricia may be close to factual, but she is rarely accurate.
If you want to read it, great. However, not all of it is factual, so ask a mormon friend to find out which stuff they actually practice/believe.
Like other people who are curious about their religious faiths, I attempted to follow the Mormon ways of life. As I was babtised and made my way into the church I began to realize that I was entrenched in a very cult like organization. My thoughts began to become clouded, I began to second guess myself in situations that should have been easy to decide. I felt a sense of obligation and guilt towards the church... The problem was that my once known faith and relationship to God was now slowly being shifted toward a "prophet" and a building, not God's word. So my question to anyone is when one takes commands from a "prophet" and not souly relying on their relationship with God, Do you think that Mitt Romney will listen to you?
May God Bless and keep you in the palm of His hand.
It is very interesting how you talk about Mormon Temple Ceremonies being Violent. LOL!! There is not even a sliver of Violence in these ceremonies, LOL! You also say that there is a deathly hand sign in the temple ceremonies which is not true, LOL. I am a convert to the Mormon Church and have been involved in many ceromonies and you could not be farther from the truth in your depictions. I am so sorry that you have such a love for Money that you are willing to make up lies about other people and what they bekieve in order to fatten your purse. I can also see that at some point in your life you have been hurt by someone, which has caused you to attempt to inflict pain on others and mislead them. So very sorry.
Matt, I don't think Mitt will listen to me because he is too indoctrinated and wants to maintain his lofty position as "god" in the afterlife through Mormonism. However, we never know what will get through to folks and what won't. I pray that this book sets him and the captives free.
I also doubt Mitt Romney would listen to you, but I doubt it would have anything to do with his religion.
Tricia,
Perhaps you should explain to people how an Evangelical explains the idea of attaining the "measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ"? Or perhaps you could explain the numerous references available to anyone regarding the very Christian doctrine of theosis or deification. John says that any man who has this hope abiding in him purifies himself, even as he (Christ) is pure. You won't find these statements in the Doctrine and Covenants (A Mormon book) You will find them in the Bible. The fact that Mormon's take the words of Christ and his servants more seriously than you do is not an indication that they are a cult. It is just an indication that we take those words to heart.
I'm sorry you misunderstood our teachings, Matt. We do not hold a prophet above our relationship with God, we simply rely on the Lord's chosen method of giving direction, which is His prophets. Ever since Adam, God has led His people through His chosen prophet. Why would today be any different? Why would God change his methods now? The World as a whole rejected His prophets (Apostles) around 100 AD, and killed them all. That was not God's doing, it was man's. So why would the wickedness of men dictate to God how He chooses to lead His people? I understand that there are many members of the Church who respect Joseph Smith as a prophet. I do too. But that should not be mistaken for worship. We worship God the Father, and His Son, not any prophet. We believe that His prophets are chosen by God, and that they receive instruction from Him. We place no more reverence on Joseph Smith as the Jews do Moses. We believe that Joseph Smith was chosen by God to carry out a great work, as was Moses. We believe that God spoke to him as He did to Moses. We believe that he was called to lead the children of God just as Moses was. I'm sorry that you misunderstood.
lellimecnar,
You said, ‘We worship God the Father, and His Son, not any prophet.’ You didn’t mention the Holy Spirit; do you worship Him?
From what I understand, we do not worship the Holy Ghost. We worship God as our Father in Heaven, and Jesus Christ, as our Savior. We have great reverence toward the Holy Ghost, but I do not believe that we worship him. I could be wrong, but that is my understanding. The Holy Ghost is like an immortal prophet. He serves a similar purpose as intermediate between God and Man. It is through the Holy Ghost that we are able to communicate with God, and it is by the Holy Ghost that mortal prophets receive instruction from the Lord. When we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, we receive the promise that we will have the Spirit as our constant companion so long as we remain worthy. The Holy Ghost is able to warn us of both spiritual and physical dangers, and guide us along the straight and narrow path of the Gospel.
lellimecnar,
Then what you are saying is that you do not believe in the Trinity as the Catholic Church has given the name to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? [This is a very important dogma of the Church for Christians….]
No. We absolutely do NOT believe in the Trinity, as defined by the fourth century councils of the Catholic Church. We believe in the Godhead, as defined in the Bible. We believe that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate individuals who are one in mission and purpose, but not substance. There is no support for that belief in the Bible.
Wow Tricia, Wow. I am flabbergasted by the conceptual errors that you post. For the record, I left the Mormon church of my own volition when I was 18; I was already out the door years before that. I never attended the temple ceremonies, and so I cannot comment on your reports of that. I am aware of revisions and their excellent PR. I also know the people and I know the doctrine.
All of your "facts" are insignificant. I'm not going to comment on the veracity of your "facts" – that's more research than I'm willing to commit at this time and I really don't doubt them. What I doubt is that you have any "truth" and are able to discern what's "false". Somehow you want me to believe that your religion has final claim to the truth of theological matters. Jesus, talking to Peter said, "Though art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." The Catholics can trace the Papacy back to Peter. Whether or not you believe them (which of course you don't) the Mormons also trace their spiritual authority back to Peter. The Protestants can trace their spiritual authority back to.... a disgruntled priest. Oh wait, no they actually want us to believe that they have some direct access to spiritual authority from feelings Christ gives them – which is no more certain than the delusional ramblings of schizophrenics. The fact is that the Protestant religions can have no claim to the spiritual authority needed to determine the truth or falsehood of a doctrine like Eternal Progression. The book which they claim gives them all the authority to speak about religious doctrines is a book they borrowed from two other religions which has been translated from three different languages – most importantly Hebrew which is a sacred language and cannot be accurately translated into another language and retain the same spiritual meaning. In fact, the very selection and vetting of the books included in the Bible is all based upon the spiritual authority of the Catholic Church, which the Protestants have rebelled against. Yet they have no qualms relying on that authority to justify their belief that the Bible is the only Word of God. They have relinquished their claims to authority, and hence there is no reason to believe their opinions on spiritual matters.
As an ex-mormon you ought to be able to give a better explanation of the doctrine of Eternal Progression. Maybe you did in your book. No one is "given a planet" – that's no where in the doctrine. By adhering to the laws of God Mormons believe they will develop to their full perfection (relative to the state of the Fall – the progression continues once you have passed the 'test' here on earth). Once they have obtained Godhood, they will create (not be given) universes, planets upon planets populated with their spiritual progeny, because that's what God's do. All of that is really an afterthought and a coda to the symphony which is the doctrine of Eternal Progression. What is taught is that you must develop your spirit here and now. They believe that their faith must produce good works or else it is a dead faith. They must work to change their behaviors to be more Christ-like because they too have the potential to be like Christ; they do not ruminate on the fact that the must have sinned, but instead focus on the fact that they can be better. They thank Christ for taking up the slack where they must necessarily fail, but do not rely on that to rest easy in their salvation; they realize that if their faith is genuine than good works must necessarily follow and they must continually develop to become better. Creating spiritual families and places for them to incarnate is just what happens. I have never heard Godhood presented as some sort of reward, or an end to strive for, in the LDS church. That's just the next thing you do. This is why they are "achievement oriented" (you said that as though somehow it's a bad thing to look for good results from your doctrine); not to be ostentatious or impress the world.
And my last point, for now, is this: render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. Whatever death-oath they made in the Temple does not automatically make them somehow immune from following the laws of the land. The LDS place great emphasis on being a good citizen. They are proud and supportive of those members who choose to go into the military service. They believe in obeying the law. Their doctrines which concern you have zero bearing on the practical aspects of running a country, and negligible bearing on their policies. The true dogma of the LDS church is based on pragmatic beneficial action. How to be good here and now. They also train their youth for leadership positions from puberty onward, and training in working within a budget, consensus building, delegation of duties, service, and looking after the poor and needy. The fact that there are a large number of well-off and successful Mormons as well as the fact that the Church itself is a very successful business, that has shown rapid expansion, is constantly building places of worship, maintaining buildings, sponsors a massive university, has a massive media wing that gives away free bibles and book of mormons, creates ads, has storehouses of food for the poor and needy, etc.and is in the black, should make one think that a mormon president might not be a bad thing for this country. The correlation that you attempt to make between becoming gods, secret temple rituals (that aren't all that secret or unprecedented), and governing the united states is absurd and completely misses the incredible, pragmatic, well-ordered society that they have created. Their views on the afterlife and the soul are between them and whatever God there may be.
Your argument is flawed. It assigns the features of a group to those of an individual, and tries to draw a connection between things that are not related. And on top of that you judge their beliefs from the position of a branch of a religion that has willfully disconnected itself from any claim to legitimate spiritual authority and hence has no authority to speak on these matters.
Several impressive and reasonable lines of thoughts here – for everyone to really think about.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head, add this to Bushman's response and the debate with Ed and Tricia is over.
After the second GOP debate this year, I wrote an article about this issue of whether or not a Mormon can be voted for President of the United States. It's a primarily a response to another article which argues Christians cannot vote for Romney, so a lot of my article should be relevant to this discussion since it addresses the same concerns.
http://knowitstrue.com/?p=640
Okay lady what on earth happened to you as a child? And how does your husband feel about your bashing, or did you divorce him once you left the church? And what about your parents?
A few things people, 1. We are not a cult, 2. We do not complain because we don't want the "truth" out as you call it, we complain because we are sick and tire of being discriminated against and slandered all over the internet and television. It's been going on for almost 200 hundred years, give it a rest. 3. There is no death oath or whatever you call it that they make you do in the Temple. I don't know what ceremonies you've participated in but that sure as heck isn't one of them. 4. Your not supposed to be revealing stuff about the ceremonies to anyone, so double shame on you Tricia.
Everyone is allowed to worship how, where and what they may. We all have our own beliefs and should not be persecuted for having them. You ever notice how it's always the Mormons who get bashed? Why is that? You don't see us bad mouthing the other religions so why are you doing it to us? I'm not saying you have to believe or turn your life around, but lady, you need to be doing some serious soul searching and stop spreading these horrendous, obscene lies about the Mormon church. If you really felt that violated, that's your problem. Leave the church and let it be. Stop trying to make a profession out of trying to discredit and slander us and what we believe in. It's hurtful, it's a lie, and in my opinion, really, really immature.
No, you guys are DEFINITELY a CULT. Look up the definition. You guys fit.
And it's pretty obvious you know she is telling the truth, too.
Definition of CULT
Many of the individual denotations of the word 'cult" I would think accurately describe a lot of faiths. Even ones that accuse other faiths of being 'cults'. Other denotations account for a small group of people – 13 million is relatively small. Another denotation requires that others view it as unorthodox or sinister- which also applies to my LDS faith because its uniqueness is pretty much the reason we're talking about Mormonism at all.
Is it the LDS church accurately described by summation of all of the lies and misconceptions implied by haters who use the word cult? Nah – people would have to be taught those perceptions – and they are.
I never cease to be amazed by the folks who say, "Look at the definition, it's a cult" and words to that effect. Most of them don't even own a dictionary. In context, it is a word used to insult people who hold different views. In other words, it doesn't mean anything, except it brands the person who uses the insult as a bigot.
Any religion, organization, or group that holds one individual over everyone else is a cult. By this definition, Christianity as a whole is a cult. We do not worship or place our prophet above anyone else, we just merely believe that he is given the authority to govern over the Church. We believe that every individual has the right to receive revelation from God pertaining to their own lives and families, but that if everyone is left to fend for themselves in spiritual matters, the Kingdom of God dissolves quickly. Just look at all the factions and bickering that took place just prior to the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. Once the leadership of the Church was gone, there was chaos. We believe that the Prophet is the head of the leadership of the Church, just as Peter was after the ascension of Christ, and Paul after him. We are no more a cult than the rest of Christianity. We worship God, our Father in Heaven, and His Son, Jesus Christ. Anyone who says otherwise does not understand the doctrines of the Church.
CatholicMom, Linus was a bishop, not an Apostle. Jesus Christ gave the keys of the Kingdom (meaning the authority to preside over the Church of Christ) to Peter as an Apostle, and gave him the authority to baptize with water and of fire. Bishops may baptize with water, but they do not have the authority to govern over the Church, or to baptize with fire, which is essential to a complete baptism. The Apostles had to re-baptize a group of people who had been baptized, but not with fire (meaning the gift of the Holy Ghost). The authority to govern over the Church ended with John, the last Apostle. That authority, given to them by Jesus Christ himself, was not given to the bishop, Linus, and there is no record of evidence to show otherwise.
lellimecnar,
Of course there were only 12 Apostles but as each died another filled his office…it is called Apostolic Succession…by the Catholic Church.
Acts Of Apostles 1:25
To take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas hath by transgression fallen, that he might go to his own place.
If that were the case, CatholicMom, where are your 12 apostles today? If the Catholic Church were truly a continuation of the Apostolic Church, then where is the true doctrine and organization that Jesus Christ himself established before His ascension? John was the last Apostle. Once he was gone, there were no Apostles. Linus was never an Apostle, he was a bishop, as I said. He was given authority over a relatively small group of Christians, not the whole Church. At what point did being the Bishop of Rome make you an Apostle? From what I read in the Bible, only the laying on of hands by an Apostle can make you an Apostle.
I for one am kind of tired of running from the word "cult" as if it has some inherently sinister definition. The dictionary gives several perfectly appropriate definitions of the word which accurately describe a great many sub sets of society. The world derives from the same root as the word culture. Honestly, does anyone not see how Abraham and his so called revolutionary beliefs would have qualified as a cult in his day? How about Moses leading the Israelites around in the wilderness for forty years? Why not the first and second Israelite Temple cultus? Then there is Jesus and his disciples, a small band of Messianic Jews with a charismatic leader, a particular take on scripture with certain rules and stipulations for membership? Often requiring the forsaking of mother, father, brother, and selling all of one's property in order to belong? When examined fully, the word cult simply describes a group of people seeking truth in a way different from other people. If my Church is a cult, so be it. That little group of men who took the gospel to the world would have fit the definition well. I am in excellent company.
Well, I was sure expecting more meat in Tricia Erickson's interview and subsequent patronizing posts. Alas, I'm beyond disappointed. I am a Latter-day Saint and I found every trashing-the-Mormons points insipid beyond description. Talk about straining at a gnat and swallowing that camel!!!! You sure know how to show your nether regions, girl, by your condescending "may God Bless" and "I'll pray for you" crap. I totally get why atheists and non-Evangelical people find people like you so irritating- you feel an obvious compulsion to teach others the "greater" way to live and believe (shock of shocks- like you! who'd a thunk that????) all the while putting them down! You remind me of that pink Dolores lady in the Harry Potter books. I'm very, very happy to be Mormon, it's no skin off your nose, have NO IDEA why YOUR knickers are in a knot over MY beliefs, and I dare you to point out anti-Tricia Erickson books published by LDS authors. How about anti-Evangelical books published by LDS authors? How about ANY anti-anything published by LDS authors? Contrary to many sad Evangelical churches, the LDS Church never devotes time or money or material attacking and putting down other faiths, not in it's buildings, not in it's worship services, not in it's educational endeavors. Why do you waste your life and others putting people like me down? (I can just hear your high-pitched sweet little voice saying "oooohhhhhh, I loooooovvvvveeeee yooooouuuuu, -here's the part when the knife is stabbed in the back and the voice deepens- it's just your beliefs I must trash!). Law of the Harvest, Karma, or "what goes around comes around"- I wouldn't be so smug if I were you.
I have written a few thoughts about this interview on a blog I contribute to. I tried to post my comments here but they were too long and were not posted.
http://www.fairblog.org/2011/07/07/a-reply-to-ms-erickson/
Ms. Erickson has nothing really substantive to add to this discussion, and her diatribe against Mormonism is nothing new from the Evangelical counter-cult industry. It is the same sort of spin you might here from notable anti-Mormons Jerald and Sandra Tanner or Bill McKeever, albeit more polemical.
Stephen, is that you? It's me, Mike O!
It is unbelievable that the hateful views of Ed Decker and Tricia Erickson, who have a major axe to grind against mormonism, are being aired on CNN. They completely misrepresent mormonism. The temple and every other aspect of mormonism is completely non-violent, and inspires people to live a happier better life. Contrary to Ms. Erickson's assertions, mormons place their trust and faith squarely – and only – on Jesus Christ. Mormons don't worship Joseph Smith any more than evangelicals worship Paul the apostle.. If mormonism is such a horrible devilish cult, why are mormons (in general) such a happy, loving, family centered, peaceful, and moral people?
I have little respect for anyone who wastes their time attacking the deeply held religious beliefs of others, when those beliefs encourage them to be law-abiding citizens and to love their neighbors as themselves. The only explanation I can think of is that they are so insecure in their own beliefs that they feel compelled to attack the beliefs of others who don't believe as they do, as a way to somehow further justify or help them feel more secure about their own beliefs. It reminds me of the way schoolyard bullies attack those whom they deem as social outcasts, as a way to help them feel better about themselves. It really tells much more about their own weaknesses than about any perceived weaknesses of the people they attack.
These are a few of my thoughts on the article and discussion.
-The fact that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has received so much persecution over its 200 year history and the fact that it continues to grow and survive all this persecution helps me to believe in it even more.
-If Tricia Erikson is christian as she claims to be, then I don't understand why write an anti-mormon book? It doesn't seem like something Jesus Christ would do.
-I pretty much laughed at most of the article because of how ridiculous it sounds. Seems that you take many things out of context and don't fully understand Mormon doctrine. I have heard most of it before anyway.
Christians don't live their own beliefs. Muslims do not live their own beliefs. Neither do Mormons. Just because something is written in a goofy old book does not mean that the believers of that book practice it. Most of them do not read their holy books. Nothing is so forbidden by the Bible as the eating of pork, but American Christians ate thousands of tons of pork today.
Now is Mormonism stupid? Yes, it is just as stupid as Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Islam. All of those religions were founded by delusional, often dishonest people. In particular, the leadership of American Christianity is utterly corrupt.
The forbidding of the eating of pork was part of the law of moses which was fulfilled after the Atonement of Christ. If I remember correctly Christ reveals to Peter in a vision that its alright to eat pork and other things. So christians are not doing anything against their beliefs by eating pork.
And just like the temple ceremonies that Ms. Erickson mentions, everything about the Law of Moses was symbolic. It was meant to teach the formerly Egyptian Israelites to turn away from the Egyptian beliefs, and worship the One True God. It was specifically designed to teach them how to prepare for their coming Messiah.
The LDS church maintained a racist policy of denying full membership to blacks until 1978. The text of the Book of Mormon and other Mormon scripture equate righteousness with skin color. Romney was 31 years old at the time the Church lifted the ban which means that for a significant portion of his adult life he accepted his church’s teaching that blacks are inherently inferior. Does he still believe that he is more "valiant" or “worthy” than blacks by virtue of being born white? If he didn't believe that people of color were inherently inferior during his adult life before the ban was lifted, then why did he remain a member – tacitly supporting the ban and its doctrinal underpinnings? Did he counsel members to not accept this church teaching when he was a church missionary, bishop or stake president? He admitted in a NY Times interview that he never questioned or protested this racist doctrine and the policy it supported. Why not?
The story line of the Book of Mormon is that a group of Jews left the middle east and sailed to the Americas. They eventually split into two groups (The Nephites – white and delightsome; The Lamanites – dark and loathsome) who fought each other until the evil Lamanties vanquished the good Nephites. Athough you don't hear much about it now, church leaders taught that the Lamanites are the ancestors of today's Native American tribes. I assume Romney accepts this fairy tale version of ancient American history. This inability to reality test beliefs is a problem for anyone who wants to be president.
A faithful, active Mormon, Romney has gone through the secret LDS temple endowment ceremony where he has taken an oath to observe the Law of Obedience and promised before God, angels and witnesses to “accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.”
If elected, would he view their political position and power as something the Lord has blessed him with? Would he keep the sworn oath to consecrate that blessing to the LDS Church? Or would he be willing to disavow the Temple oath he made before God, angels, and witnesses?
Don't pretend to know anything about Mormon doctrine when you obviously don't. The Church has never believed or taught that blacks were inferior to whites, or that they were unworthy because of their dark skin. This goes against nearly every doctrine that we hold as truth. We believe that Ham, the son of Noah, was cursed because he desecrated the Priesthood of his father. This curse meant that his descendants could not receive the Priesthood until the last days. The dark skin was not a result of this curse. Ham married a descendant of Cain, who was cursed with the dark skin, and therefore the children of Ham were black before the curse was ever placed upon Ham.
The Book of Mormon accurately describes the origin of many (but not all) native American Tribes. The legends of the Hopi Indians almost exactly mirrors the main storyline of the Book of Mormon. This is fitting, because the area of Arizona where the Hopi reside is one of the last known location of Moroni, the last prophet of the Book of Mormon. I personally believe that the Lamanites received the dark skin not because of a curse, but because of inter-breeding with the natives that they found there. (The Book of Mormon never says that the Nephites and Lamanites were the only civilizations in America)
The Law of Consecration does not mean that you pledge yourself as a slave to the Mormon Church. It merely states that you promise to rise to whatever calling the Lord would ask of you, and that you recognize that all of your possessions are given to you by the Lord, and that you are willing to return them if necessary. It is no different than Jesus Christ's invitation to the rich young ruler to give everything he had to the poor, and follow Him.
Next time you try to discredit someone else's beliefs, it would be a good idea to be absolutely certain that you understand what they actually believe, and why.
Tricia:
Way to go girl! Yes, I think Mitt's belief in mormonism has conditioned him to mislead people. As my own research reveals (www.Romneyexposed.com), Romney has repeatedly lied to voters about his views on dozens of major issues. I have never seen a candidate mislead voters so often and all I can conclude is that he is so fanatical about being the first Mormon president that he's willing to say anything to get elected.
I could be mistaken, but it has always been my impression that his flip-flopping has always been true to his platform. I'd rather have someone tell me the truth about the stance they are going to pursue once in office than 'what they personally believe' and are not going to follow. I perceive that Mitt has – to some degree- set aside his personal beliefs and faith to fulfill the promises he has made to those who voted him into office. So while he has changed his platform on several occasions he seems to be true to his word.
Actually if you look at the Washingtom Post you will see today's article that gives our dishonesty ratings to different candidates. Suprisingly Mitt was actually listed as the most honest of all the candidates and equaly honest with President Obama. This information is in the Pinochio Files which is witten by a Democrat.
The most scathing criticisms of the Mormon Church generally come from ex-Mormons; just as ex-smokers are the harshest critics of smokers; lap-banders of fat people; former ladies of negotiable affection on those still in the trade; former drunks of current drunks; and, of course, people who have found their souls of current politicians. We haven't found any ex-Musl!ms yet, well, not alive at least, but who knows?
Should Romney ever become POTUS, I doubt his religion would play any greater part in his administration than Kennedy's Catholicism or Nixon Quakerism did in theirs. And I really doubt that a Mormon is more devout than a Lutheran, a Baptist (except Westboro), a Jew, or an Episcopalian. Besides, America isn't Syria or Iran or Saudi Arabia (at least not yet, right, CAIR?), and Washington DC is not Mecca, so no matter what Judeo/Christian or Atheist belief any President might observe, it's always going to be about politics.
Well said.
How does any of this make Mormonism any worse than evangelical christianity? The statement "(Mormonism and Islam) contain histories of false prophets and man-made (not God-made) religious books, writings that are full of fallacies, false doctrine, indoctrination and bizarre promises of the afterlife" can be applied to any religion.
Tricia,
What church do you go to? Do you feel that your religious beliefs qualify you to be President? Are you indoctrinated with your current religion?
Why don't you tell all of these readers about how you were charged by the Feds back in the late 1990's in Virginia. It seems that a lot of Christain families that you served felt that you ran an organization that scammed them out of a lot of money. Sorry to bring this up, but when you bash on others on a national stage, your past can haunt you. I am suprised CNN did not do a thorough background check on you! (Google it (Erickson Agency, VA)).
Tricia,
Wow! I don't even know where to start! Shame on you!
I can not believe all of those false things you wrote about our religion in your book, especially about the temple. I was once catholic, and now an active "mormon." Religion has NOTHING to do with running for Presidnt orany other carreer !You should know that! Mit romnyt is tryig to run for president of the USA, I am the CEO of a day care, my husband works in a pharmacy, my brother is a manager, my sister works with senior citizens in thier homes, one of my friends is a Vet assistant and ect. We're ALL active "Mormons". Here's the thing- We don't bring our religion to our work places, or etc. I don't think you understand that concept. If a co-worker asks us about our religious beliefs we like anyone else would say "we are Christian and of the mormon faith. If they ask us a certain question of what we believe, we would more than likely answer their specific question. That is the extent of us bringing religion to work with us. We believe that anyone can believe what they want to believe and we do the same. When my day care kids 's parents aren't there do you think I "brainwash" them and my assistance into my beliefs?" Absolutely not! A matter of fact that's another thing that is upsetting to me about what you say of our religion...We are not brainwashed. You can believe what you wanna believe. A person studies our faith , reads the scriptures, and prays sincerely to God about the answer to know if it's truth or not. I have done this! I have prayed to God and recieved my answer...I personaly know this church is true. My testimony of my faith shook once while serving my church mission. Anti-mormon litature can be believable, unfortunately it is all twist. of the truth. It's all so twisted that sometimes it's hilarious to hear or read. I swear just the other day I found a site who said some anti stuff on a viideo and it was HILARIOUS!!! I was seriously laughing.The ironic thing about that is that the majority of the people who write the anti litature are ex-mormons. Anywho after questioning my own beliefs while on my mission, I decided to pray to know for myself again if this church was true,Is the the Book of mormon true, was the prophet Joesph smith a real prophet of God, and etc. I saved up about $8,000 (goes to housing ,transportaion, any other needs, and food ) to serve a mission. I remember asking God that I needed to know right then and there if he could because I love to shop! If is was false I would get up go home and use my money (roughly $7000 at the time) and go on a shopping spree! I'm not kidding I seriously said that, because I meant it! lol! If it's true, then I will stay on my mission. I needed to know then and there because I refused to be a hypocrite by going in these peoples homes who wanna know what and why we believe what we do and tell them I believe when I wasn't sure anymore. You know what, after that prayer I got off of my knees and read the Book of mormon. I remember just flipping it to some random page just to read. The first verse I read I felt the spirit of God (galations 5:20 and 21 I think. sorry, I'm a bit scripture rusty.) I knew it was the answer to my prayer. It's very short but to the point. It says "this is all true. T this day and forever I will awlays remember that answer and the feeling I got from it! Again, I KNOW this church is true! Nothing and NO ONE will ever agian shake my faith for my answer was from God himself! If a mormon is elected president he will do his job, just as I and everyone else do our jobs. I personaly don't like his views even if he is a mormon active or not. I may believe the same as he in our religious beliefs but I don't like him as a running canadate-he seems to be fickle and misleading to me, the other mormon canadate either-he seems to arrogant. People should not judge the rest of us mormons on thier actions or words. The gospel is perfect, the people are not. We are good Christian people living as christlike as we can, just like everyone else. 
If Palin is runnng I will definately vote for her. I like her and her views! 
Well, I have work in the morning. I gotta go. g'night!
Tricia,
It continues to amaze me how individuals like yourself spend so much of your time trying to destroy the faith of others.
The Bible teaches that the first great commandment is to love the Lord and love your neighbor. I recognize all those in the world as my neighbor and I don't spend my time disrespecting their views or trashing their beliefs. In fact, quite opposite. I respect their beliefs and faith and accept them for who and what they are. Some of my greatest memories of my mission for the LDS church was when I was working hand in hand with ministers or missionaries from other denominations in the service of others, just as Jesus taught.
The Bible teaches that Jesus time and time again showed forth love for those who were "off course" because he knew their hearts. They were good people, just as you have mentioned that Mormons are good, kind people, yet you spend your time trying to tear down our decisions made by our free agency, another thing Jesus blessed us all with. You might want to check your own eye before trying to take the beam out of others eyes.
BTW, the Book of Mormon also teaches all these same things. No wonder it is called, "Another Testament of Jesus Christ".
Crazy, how a church that teaches love above all other things, service, and Christlike attributes is such a cult. Crazy how a church that sends millions of dollars worth of supplies, food, etc... to tragic areas such as Hurricane Katrina, the Haiti earthquake to clothe the naked and feed the hungry is a cult... Crazy how over 50,000 young people in the prime of their lives choose (not forced) to go out to all the world, leaving behind college educations, work, and loved ones for 18-24 months to serve, paying for the financial obligation 100% on their own. Not to mention the thousands of individuals who serve as Bishops, Youth Group Leaders, etc... all work hours a week with no pay is consider a cult. Sound just like the way Christ himself did it to me.
There are so many great individuals in this world that are Mormon, Catholic, Jew, Lutheran, ect.. ect... that have great hearts with their only desire being that of living the commandments of God and serving others. They are all great and there will be a place in the Lords Kingdom for all of them. Those who profess to be a believer, but spend their time trying to call others out for a bag of silver, probably not so much. Reminds of a scripture in Matthew that says these people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me and another that says by their fruits ye shall know them.
If you are truly a believer in Christ and want to love and serve him, then live your life in a way that reflects that. This article and your book does not do this. I'm afraid it does quite the opposite.
ANTHONY, thanks for bringing that to light. After reading many articles about this, such as, http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/modeling_scam.htm
I can only reiterate my previous comment. Funny, I can't find any articles like this about Mitt Romney. I did find one about him shutting down Bain Capital for a couple of days to help search the streets of NYC for a missing girl. To bad he belongs to a cult or you may have to say that sounds pretty Christlike and shows forth love.
You're unbelievable!
Yep. As suspected, she is in it for the money. Credibility gone. Take a look at this. Looks like she is/was a scam artist. Google: Consumer Affairs Modeling Scam Settlement Patricia Erickson
Interesting....in the end this is between Patricia and her God
Anti-Mormonism is good business. Obviously no one can stop Mormonism from spreading and Tricia knows that. This is her attempt to take out a share in the market of Anti-Mormonism. Tricia will get her money, those who buy her material will get the sensationalized and decontextualized views of Mormonism they feed off of.
Tricia, you prey on the ignorant and the weak–the poor souls who think they are getting an accurate portrayal of Mormonism. Nobody outside Mormonism can truly give an accurate representation of what Mormonism is. Its even difficult for some members to articulate. You admitted you never believed, so your opinion as an "ex-Mormon" really doesn't paint a true portrayal of the Mormon experience.
All cultist say the view from the outside is decieving.
The Moonies, the Mansons, the Branch Davidians, the Roman Catholics, and Aum Shinrikyo all claim the same thing.
Great company you are in.
Despite your clever statement you fail to refute the argument.
You know the fact that people are standing around who have left the church proves for one that their is no such thing as indoctrination. Indoctrination hints to the fact that you can't leave, don't have a will of your own and that it's subjected to the will of others.
Since people have left the church of their own free will or the fact that their are several inactive people in the church also proves that their is no such thing as indoctrination in the LDS church. I just wish that people would own up and admit that the LDS church wasn't for them and leave it at that. For some people the LDS church is for them, for others it isn't But to claim that ever Mormon out their is indoctrinated is ridiculous beyond belief. and doesn't do justice to the fact that some people believe and stay because of their own free will nor do it do justice to those who leave the church because again...their own free will.
This article does the religious beliefs of several people a disservice and it's a shame that many people don't comprehend that.
@ Rebekah – You may not want to call it indoctrination, but that's exactly what it is, whether you're a Mormon or any other brand of conservative or fundamentalist Christian. Even the Bible legitimizes indoctrination: "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it – Proverbs 22:6.
Obviously this does not happen only to Christians. If I was born in India, I would likely be brought up Hindu, if I was from another Middle Eastern country I would likely be Muslim, and so on. Part of our upbringing is indoctrination, whether we like it our not. The problem is that most Abrahamic religions are fear-based. "Do this, and don't do that, else you will end up in hell." If I am taught this as a baby and later as a young child, what choice do I have to look at other options during my formative years? None. No wonder the Abrahamic religions have been fighting with each other for centuries.
Rebekah...I can tell that you are either; a practicing full fledged Mormon, or have no idea what the Mormon church is about. Indoctrination is EXACTLY what it is.
@ Jess
You're point is what? People choose whatever faith they wish to believe or not to believe. They also choose to leave it. Apparently Mormon "Indoctrination" wasn't good enough for Tricia because she left. Do you realize how ridiculous this article is?
What is indoctrination? The teaching of doctrine? Then yes, we teach our doctrines to our children so that they may learn how to live according to the commandments of the Lord. If we teach them properly, they will come to know for themselves that the doctrine is true, and they will not depart from it when they face trials in the future. More than any other church I've seen, Mormonism focuses on gaining a personal testimony of everything that they are taught. Other Churches say that the Bible is the only word of God, and so anything in the Bible is true (regardless of how you interpret it). We say that the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and all other scripture is written by God's prophets, and if you want to know if something is true, take it up with God Himself, not the Bible. There have been times where I have read or heard things that didn't quite make sense, so I prayed and asked God for clarification. After some time and study, I was able to understand the doctrines that were being taught. I have seen no other Church that encourages such behavior. Call it indoctrination if you want, but I call it divine revelation through personal study.
Lellimecnar,
There are 3 voices you may listen to: 1) the evil one…satan and his minions
2) your own inner voice…your will…
3) the voice of God
What is your rule to distinguish if the voice is the ‘right voice’?
The fact that you would even ask that shows me that you have never felt the power of the Holy Ghost, nor have you received a direct answer to a question through prayer.
As you develop a closer relationship with God, you learn to distinguish a prompting of the Holy Ghost from your own intuition. There have been several times in my life where I received direction from the Lord through prayer that ran counter to my logic and rational decision making. I'm not even going to discuss the possibility of mistaking the temptations of the devil for spiritual promptings. Such a notion is ludicrous. If you can't tell the difference between good and evil, then you ought to pray more often and learn the difference.
And for those who are only Mormons on Sunday morning, yes, I would call it indoctrination. They only go to Church to be passively "spiritually fed" and that is the extent of their spiritual experience throughout the week. I have seen many people who neglect their own testimony while riding on the coattails of others. They hear the words and believe them, but don't understand them. I would consider those people to be blindly indoctrinated, but they do not represent the Church as a whole, or its teachings.
@ Tricia Erickson said, "After I left the church, it took years to clear the fog of the many years of indoctrination and deception that had been poured in to my brain. Even though I didn’t believe in it, when you sit in the pews for 21 years, you cannot avoid the mind binding programming and distortion."
It's interesting that these were exactly the same feelings I had while I was being raised as a conservative (non-Mormon) Christian. It took me years to "clear the fog" of what I had been taught about heaven, hell, salvation versus damnation. I can barely distinguish the difference between Mormonism and any other brand of conservative or fundamentalist Christianity. I see them all as bordering on emotional abuse, especially when inflicted on children who have no choice but to sit and listen to this stuff.
Right on!
This is akin to one member of the Manson family saying the other one is crazy.
They are ALL crazy, and this gold digging Jesus freak is no exception.
Such a shame that these bronze age diseases still destroy so many lives
How much more proof is required to demonstrate the delusional, divisive sociopathic nature of religion? Why is one belief in a man-made god and its tenets more "bizarre" than another's? The whole "my religion is better than yours" has caused nothing but hardship and has served to nothing but foster fear and loathing. Is a secret Mormon ritual any more disquieting than a bloodied man hanging on a cross? Is the concept of angels and demons really less weird than believing men can become gods? It's all made-up nonsense, none of which deserves serious consideration. I would be far more comfortable with a presidential candidate who acknowledged that religion has no place but in an individual's deluded mind. Real problems and real questions deserve real consideration and real answers, not pie-in-the-shy hocus pocus. Shame on America for letting myths shape its direction.
Hello pot, meet kettle. She's every bit the loony Romney is.
Hang in there Tricia. You already knew that many people would not be receptive to the truth any more than they were in the days Jesus spent on earth and now reveals in His Word. John 8:32 says, "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set make you free." The world is full of people who prefer ignorance to truth. It makes them comfortable. People may choose not to believe now, but one day they will. I just hope for them it will not be too late. Philippians 2:9-11 says, " Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him(Jesus), and given him a name above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in earth and things under earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord." That day is not far from coming. Also do not expect people to just love you because you are a child of God. Jesus himself was scorned and even spat upon by people who should have known better(political and religious) as well as the the everyday person in the street. But know this you are loved and you are being lifted in prayer now and always. You are precious in His sight and that is all that really matters isn't it?
Thank you so much Connie. I needed to hear this right now. It's hard to stand up against goliath.
Hows business? Thanks for efforts in perpetuating Mormonism in the media. As I said before any press is good press for Mormonism.
If you remember the story about David and Goliath, Ms. Erickson, Goliath was the one antagonizing the God of the Hebrews, not David. David was not the one mocking someone else's religion, that was Goliath. David stood up to Goliath, and defended his God, as I feel it is necessary for me to do right now. You try to tell people that the Mormon God and Mormon Jesus are different from the God of Christianity, but that is a lie, and you know it. We both believe in the God of the Bible, but we interpret the Bible differently. That is why Bible-bashing is so prevalent among different Christian denominations: they both believe the Bible, but believe in different interpretations of it. I believe that, if my understanding of the Bible was wrong, then the apostles and prophets wouldn't have said the things they did about becoming heirs of God. You believe that if my interpretation was correct, then the Bible would explicitly state it as fact. Well, that is where our understanding of the Bible differs. I assume that you hold the same view of the Bible as most mainstream Christianity in that it is the absolute and infallible word of God, and that it was created by God for us. I believe that, while the Bible does contain the word of God through His prophets, it is a creation of man, as is the Book of Mormon. The difference between the Bible and the Book of Mormon, however, is that the Bible was compiled by Catholics through much debate and argument. The Book of Mormon was compiled by a single prophet who was directed by God to include what he did. (That man was Moroni in around 400 AD, not Joseph Smith in 1830)
When you attack Mormonism, you attack Christianity. If you choose to attack Mormonism for its interpretation of the Bible, then you must attack every Christian denomination beside your own for their interpretation. We believe in the same God, same Christ, same Bible, and same Gospel. We just believe different things about them.
Most Christians hold the Apostle's Creed as their foundational beliefs. Do Mormon's hold dear this Creed?
If the Apostles Creed had been written by actual Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, then yes we would. But it was not.
We believe most of what the Apostle's Creed teaches, except for line number 9. We do not believe in the divinity of "saints." Neither do most non-Catholic Christians.
Mr. Bushman says, "To my way of thinking the idiosyncrasies of Mormon belief and practice are not the issue; Catholic belief in transubstantiation and Protestant belief in the Resurrection can be made to look silly, too."
Is he saying belief in the Resurrection, of which both Catholics and Protestants believe, is silly? I thought Mormons considered themselves Christians? The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is a non-negotiable tenet for both Catholics and Protestants. Is it not for Mormons?
Perhaps you should read what he said again. He said "can be made"
"Is he saying belief in the Resurrection, of which both Catholics and Protestants believe, is silly? I thought Mormons considered themselves Christians? The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is a non-negotiable tenet for both Catholics and Protestants. Is it not for Mormons?"
Mormons believe that Jesus is the Christ, that he overcame death and hell, was literally resurrected in that he lives today and is our Saviour and Redeemer, and that only through Him may we be saved.
Having been born and raised Mormon, and once married in the temple, I agree with Tricia's notion that a Mormon should not be president. If you are Mormon or an ex-Mormon, you know that your first allegiance is to your religion, even above your own family. Your kidding yourself if you don't think Mormon headquarters will have their hand in EVERY decision made by a Mormon president. It's the way they work. I've seen it. I've lived it. It would be a huge mistake.
Jess, you're confused. A Mormon's allegiance is not to his Church above his family. His allegiance is to God. As Stephen R. Covey pointed out in The Divine Center, that allegiance sometimes requires the same person to drop everything and go to work, leave work and go home, or leave home to go to church. People do this all the time. It's called having priorities, but instead of putting one thing above another, and so on and so forth, it's about responding to what most needs attention at any given moment.
Mormons do this. Atheists do this. Jews do this. Buddhists do this. You probably do this.
I have tried three times to respond to this comment, with no luck...
If you truly hold to this, explain how we can have Harry Reid in the political arena as well as the likes of Orrin Hatch.
Mrs Erickson,
Just curious. Do you have a problem with most of the founding fathers of the united states being masons and their participation in rituals similar to the ones that mormons participate in? It seems that they did a pretty good job.
WHAT A BIGOT
We are selecting a president, not a pastor.
agreed.
Sounds like a lot of pots calling kettles black. If Mitt Romney is not capable of being president based on his faith, then no president should be allowed to take office if they belong to a certain faith. Which, of course, makes the most sense. A secular president, who can honestly represent and speak to all faiths, without having any bias. We can dream...
Is Tricia Erickson the same woman who founded The Erickson Agency, which was punished by the FTC? If so, this woman has serious credibility issues. She's trying to establish a career as a Mormon expert.
According to the FTC website:
"The Erickson Agency, Inc. and its owner, Patricia Erickson, have settled Federal Trade Commission charges over Erickson's role in Model 1, Inc. and Creative Talent Management, Inc.'s deceptive scheme to lure consumers into paying large amounts for modeling and acting training classes based on the promise of getting high-paying assignments."
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/10/erickson.shtm
We've got her on our radar now. S.P.A.M. is watching.
P.S. I am Catholic, not Mormon.
Didn't think much of the article, but I'm glued to the debate!
Tricia reminds me of an art critic who sees the Mona Lisa and appreciates it on paper as toilet paper. Either she never knew the significance or she's forgotten OR she's an outright liar.
I tend to think she is sincere, but that does not make her right or a good "art" critic. Clearly she is biased toward a born again perspective as influenced (on Mormonism) by Ed Decker, who in my view borders on being a sociopath because of his many deliberate misrepresentations of Mormonism. (Either that or he is also a poor "art" critic.)
There is a book I've never read called The Sociopath Next Door, available in Audible's bargain basket, that suggests up to 5% of people don't have a conscience. While I am optimistic this is a massive stretch, I suspect some people just "don't get it" when it comes to religion and faith. They don't have eyes to see or ears to hear, as the Savior said. It would be inappropriate for me to label Tricia in this way, not having a degree in psychiatry to do so and not knowing her personally, but her repeated use of the word discernment (at nine years old) brought to my mind the opposite picture, that she really doesn't see what some of us are blessed to see.
At the same time, those who do "see" should not judge those who don't. God knows the hearts and minds of men, and what light and truth he has given them. We don't.
I'd like to hear what Tricia think of David and Solomon. David desired to build a temple where this type of covenant could be administered, but God said hs son Solomon would have to do it because David had blood on his hands. (Uriah's, i think, although it might have been in general as a King at war, or killing Goliath.) Incidentally, masons claim to have received their oaths from this exact temple of Solomon, which they built, the same temple that Christ later called his Father's house as he cast out the money changers.
We don't sacrifice animals in the temples, as Old Testament people did to foreshadow Christ's ultimate sacrifice.
Christ does ask of us "a broken heart and a contrite spirit" as the scriptures say, and that Mormons offer willingly in houses built to their God. As the inscription above the entrance says, "Holiness to the Lord."
My opinion of Mitt is that his "consecration" to the Lord in the temple may actually qualify him even more in his whole hearted desire to serve our country. He did the first faithfully as a missionary in France and a Stake President in Massachusetts. Why would he not execute with similar dedication his office to this country and the people of it, both this generation and those to come?
As a devout and practicing Mormon I have to laugh when I read something so far from the truth. I will not go into all the ways that she is so incredibly wrong and how all of her knowledge comes from emotions and not fact. Yes, she might not believe what we believe but to take it to the levels of hate that she does is very sad and I feel very sorry for her. I did however want to clarify one thing that she describes in her article about violent ceremonies in the temple where we make a hand that simulates cutting our throats in obedience to the church. I promise the world with my very life would be forfeit if I am lying. This does not and has never happened in a temple ceremony. Yes, we make covenants to God, angels and the witnesses in the temple but nothing is ever violent, we make no suggestions of death in the temple or anywhere as mormons for that matter. She has taken something that is as easy as raising your hand to promise and agree to a covenant to making it into something that does not nor has ever existed. WHY? Why make up lies? Do you have a need to make things sound so much worse to make yourself feel better for leaving the church. Say what you want about anything we believe and if it's true and you just don't agree then fine, but please stop trying to spread these lies as it just makes you look weak, dishonest and vindictive.
Tricia Erickson, I'm a "graduated" Mormon myself who was faithful for half a century, and who enjoys presenting LEGITIMATE crticisms of the church. And I'm telling you you're as much a religious bigot on this issue as anyone and are misrepresenting the influence the church would have on a Mormon president. The church would attempt noi such thing if for no other reason than that they're not stupid and know it would leak, causing endless grief.
Romney or Huntsman would not allow their religious beliefs to interfere with their governance more than any other president who is a believe in some religion, and in some cases perhaps less so (Huckabee comes to mind). Nor would the more exotic teachings of Mormonism have any bearing on poltiical issues. How would economic policy be impacted by the Mormon belief that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers in the pre-existence?
It astounds me how so many Americans just can;ltlearn the lessons if history. We have to keep fighting the battle against bigotry over and over again with every new unpopular demographic. Why can't we generalize the principle of anti-bigotry and quit having to spin our wheels like this over and over?
Are comments being cut off here? I can't seem to get mine posted
It is my experience that if we give God all that we have and are, he gives it back in the right order.
Ask a Mormon missionary who has given eighteen months (sisters) to two years (elders) of his or her life to serve God and they will say their life is better for it!
I think Mitt would tell you that, too, if he were not trying so hard to serve "no one cause or religion" as President (candidate for now) as he said in his famous Faith in America speech in 2007 in College Station!
As a Mormon. . . and a Democrat. . . I can say that as much as you may perceive you are doing good, you are not. Your book will, and probably already has, contributed to an atmosphere of hate and prejudice, and opened up an avenue for strife and contention. I can safely say that you have made many people miserable, and they are, as you suggest in your article, taking more anti-depressants than ever.
Please consider the ramifications your actions will have in the future. Just as gays and atheists ask for the right to practice their beliefs without persecutions, so do Christians, and in particular, Mormons. If you must hate on someone, go kill your cat, not someone's faith.
Shame on you for advocating cat sacrifice. And why? Just to shift ridicule away from yourself–ridicule you richly deserved. Now that you have proved you have no respect for the life and health of cats, there is no evil of which I will not believe Mormons capable. Think of the innocent kittehs!
Now that was funny!
I actually think people have every right to not vote for a Mormon because of his or her religion, but I would add two words of warning, both from Jesus...
"Do unto others as you would have done unto you."
"With what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again."
He said this to his followers.
Mormons are now the fourth largest faith in America, as of 2005, and are among those growing in number. At this rate of growth, they may eventually be second largest to Catholics, eclipsing Baptists. Would you have Mormons deny you the rights and privileges you now decry for them when and if you become a minority?
Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism and a follower of Christ, said he would die for a Catholic's or Presbyterian's right to believe in and worship God as he or she chooses. He did die for his own beliefs, both religious and political. (He ran for US President in 1844 on an anti-slavery platform, anathema in the South.)
According to Joseph Smith in his writings found in Joseph Smith—History: Extracts from the History of Joseph Smith, The Prophet, Volume 1:
16. I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness
of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17. It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the
enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw
two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description,
standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling
me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved
Son. Hear Him!
18. My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which
of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No
sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able
to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the
light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never
entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should
join.
19. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all
wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds
were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt;
that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are
far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men,
having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them.1 [Emphasis
added]
According to Smith’s account, all creeds are an abomination to God,
therefore the only church in the world that is legitimate is The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This misconception by the Mormon
Church still holds today.
So? Has the belief that the LDS Church is God's only true church prevented Mormons from giving credit to other Christians for their faith in Jesus and all the good they do, in addition to voting for countless non-LDS politicians? The fact that we don't believe any other church holds the authority to administer ordinances of the gospel does not mean we don't believe we can treat them with respect and live with them in peace, allowing them to worship in whatever manner they see fit.
Thanks for your response, Tricia.
To this I would point out that no dove descended to bless the creeds adopted at the Council of Nicaea on which most ministers today rest their doctrinal heads.
To the contrary, read what you just quoted.
Of all the truths lost over the centuries and in the "creeds" in particular, the foremost is the nature of God and his relationship to us.
Joseph Smith believed what James, an Apostle, wrote in James 1:5. The ministers of his day could not wrap their heads around that one verse, and so began the assault on Mormonism that you proudly continue.
What bothers me most about the fourth century AD creeds is they paint God as unknowable and without body, parts or passions. No wonder they were an abomination in God's sight? How do you place your faith in a being who is unknowable and without body, parts or passions?
Furthermore, how do you reconcile the 325 AD Nicaean Creed definition, decided by Constantine who was NOT an Apostle but a religious Roman emperor, with Christ calling God not just his Father, but Our Father, and by some translations Daddy?
False creeds do not lead to true faith. What was lost had to be "restored."
Fortunately, more people today are open to the idea that the Heavens are open, that we can ask and God answers, that He has more in common with us than was recognized in the "dark" ages, and that we are not cast off forever, but can return to a knowable God through Christ Jesus. I give much credit to Joseph Smith for his courage to start this line of inquiry with God in a quiet grove of trees near his home rather than fearing to take a step beyond the pages of his family Bible, into faith.
Mormonism is a first century AD Christian faith restored in the nineteenth century and practiced in the twenty-first, sometimes maligned by those who judge it by fourth century AD creeds. Where else but in Christ's time and the LDS church do you find prophets, apostles, and divine revelation?
All this being said, this does not give me license to look down on those who do not know what I know or who read the Bible differently or even think God is an all powerful cloud rather than a Heavenly parent. I defend your right to different eyes and to express what you find to be your truth. I can't defend it as "the" truth. My conscience and reason would stare me in the face. Thank you, though, for your contribution.
Exactly right – Mormon theology is very similar to First Century Christianity and bears no relationship to Fourth Century Creeds – that is exactly what was revealed to Joseph Smith:
http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com
The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) views on Baptism, Lay Ministry, the Trinity, Theosis, Grace vs. Works, the Divinity of Jesus Christ comport more closely with Early Christianity than any other denomination
Ms. Erickson, do you honestly believe that Joseph Smith's account of the First Vision tries to say that everyone who is not Mormon is an abomination? If so, then you really don't understand anything about Mormonism. It is one of our Articles of Faith that "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." Just because we believe that we are right (as every religious organization does) doesn't mean that we wish to force everyone to believe what we believe. On the contrary, we wish everyone the same privilege that we ask for ourselves: let us worship how, where, or what we may.
This is a great article. I agree 100% with Tricia Erickson.
Be careful. She tends to lie.
I love when a Christian complains that Mormons believe irrational and silly things with no evidence and therefore should not be president. By that logic, we can only elect atheists and agnostics.
Atheists and agnostics have their own delusions. I've read a bit of Dawkins. I agree, though, that that should not bar them from office.
Jed
What delusions would that be, Jed? Please do indulge me. Tell me all about me since you know so much.
Ouch! You just hinted that you did not believe Luke's "prophet" and it upset him!
A proclaimed atheist or agnostic has no shot as president in current times. Don't know about the near future either.
Mitt Romney can both defend and promote the doctrines, principles, and practices of Mormonism (actually known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), but he has demonstrated that he wont use the bully pulpit of the Presidency to do it. That should reassure the harshest critic.
I think it is also worth noting the Book of Mormon passage that reads, "When you are in the service of your fellow beings, you are only in the service of your God." (Mosiah chapter 2, verse 17.)
http://scriptures.LDS.org
How might this affect the way Mitt sees and does his duty?
Where are all the news stories about dead ex-mormons with their throats slit from ear to ear? Tricia and God Bless America should be dead for violating the temple covenants they took and yet the violent mormons have let them live for some reason...weird.
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) statement on political neutrality: http://newsroom.lds.org/official-statement/political-neutrality
Thank you. I've been wanting to add that ever since someone said that Mormon Headquarters would be controlling Romney's decision. I would have liked to see some proof of that while he was governor.
Its a sad day in America when when people can have such an utter disregard for other peoples faith. Judge Mitt Romney for his political track record and make your decision at the ballot box. How abosolutely narrow minded do you have to be to think that if or when he is elected, he will turn this country into a "Mormon Oligarchy". The political process won't allow it and has never allowed it. Most everybody knows a Mormon, and 99% of the time a person finds out someone is a Mormon because of their nice demeanor, not because they come off as "blind cult followers". Mormons are not perfect, Mormons don't always make the right decisions. Interestingly enough, neither do Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Evangelists, Athiests, everyone.....Focus on the issues here people.
Wondering why CNN still focuses on narrow opinions of voters on the Right toward Mormons when the Left has 33% more trouble with us (less likely to vote for), according to the latest Gallup polls?
Will liberal feet and biases be put under the fire, too?
CNN?
I live in Utah, & was raised as LDS, although I choose to visit many faiths.
In every religion there are good & bad people, & levels of faith & devotion...which is why you can't tell much about someone, just from they're religion. I don't know who I will vote for, but their religion is far from my main concerns. I want to know their stance on the issues! I'd worry more over a candidate who focuses so much on being against any other group of people, because then things are neglected, & people are hurt.
This lady fits into the stereotypical group of angry ex-members. Every church or group has them, & they are hardly an authority, & have hurt & bitter feelings, & lash out. She clearly has issues w/Mormons, & is profiting from her anger, & bias. It's sad really, because & preaching like she is, leads to their lives being engulfed by it, & less about their own religion. In fact Christian means someone who follows & tries to be like Christ...he didn't spend his time attacking others beliefs.
As for the Mormon church, it doesn't fit the criteria of a cult, yes there's a criteria.There is nothing "violent" wthe church, let alone in the Temple, which is viewed as sacred. People don't talk about many things out of reverence, not because they are horrifying at all. Her opinion is clearly Christians are the only real religion, & Mormons aren't Christian, despite them following Christ. No religion is a one & only for the USA, that's why we became the USA. Every person that has faith believes the text, & leaders are real. One doesn't have to agree to respect others beliefs as their own. Lastly, the bible, which Mormons also read, was also written by men. It doesn't make it wrong, it just means that all religious texts are written by men, & every believer, believes their text is inspired & sacred, that's what makes them scriptures. Oh & this would definitely fall under bearing false witness, again for her profit. I don't care which religion someones against...I won't buy, & will pay no more attention, just hope the anger lessens for her someday, It's no fun to have, or live w/someone that's has such bias w/harsh feelings towards others.
It is a loving thing to do to lead the deceived in to the truth. As fare a no violence in the secerat temple ceremonies, here (it's in my book, is what I had to vow to..and more...in the temple endowment ceremony on my wedding day at 19 years of age:
Excerpt from the book:
Next, we mimicked the motions of tearing our tongues out of our
mouths. I wondered if they would really kill me. Would I die if ever I spoke
of these things? Is that why the whole temple thing was so hush-hush and my
mom had not explained any of it to me?
We then had to symbolize that we were holding a knife up in the air in
our right hand, which we lowered and acted as if were cutting our hearts
out of our chest. We then positioned the imaginary knife at our left lower
abdominal area. While repeating the oaths led by the “puppet master” we
were directed to symbolically and violently jerk the imaginary knife from
its place at our lower left abdomen up and diagonally across our body to
our right shoulder. Th is signifi ed the slashing of our abdomens.
I do have one concern with a Mormon president, but it has nothing to do with Morom beliefs and rituals. Every faith has its own rituals and traditions that seem meaningful to its followers and silly to those outside the faith. I have long been aware of Mormon oaths, tokens, and symbols, and I don't doubt that Romney can tell the difference betrween his faith and the duties of a president to the American people.
My concern lies with the fact that the Mormon church has a living human leader who can exert tremendours pressure on an individual Mormon. It's essentially imposisble to disobey their direct request. Of course this is also true for Catholicism, but the Pope is a much more remote figure than the President of the LDS Church.
As a Jew, I would have no problem with a Jewish president but I *would* have a problem with Chassidic Jewish president for the same reason. Mainstream Jews view their rabbis much as mainstream Christians view their pastors and priests – a source of wisdom or advice but not the final authority on everything. Chassidic Jews, however, view their "rebbe" as almost a messiah – their teaching and pronouncements carry almost the weight of a military order.
I fear some of the same danger if a devout Mormon were to become president. A request from the president, prophet, or quorum of twelve of the LDS church would be very difficult to go against.
from the book:
A Total Disdain for Jews
Deeper in this vein of prejudice, we come to the Jewish nation; in the
following passage Mormon prophet Brigham Young describes his view of
the Jews:
I would rather undertake to convert fi ve thousand Lamanites
[Native Americans], than to convert one of those poor miserable
creatures [Jews] whose fathers killed the savior … Yes, I would rather
undertake to convert the devil himself, if it were possible … I would
say, leave them, and come home, the lord does not require you to stay
there, for they must suff er and be damned … [l]eave them to live
and die in their sins and ignorance … [t]hey take pleasure in their
wickedness … 53 (Emphasis added)
The President of the Church understands that he holds the authority to govern over the Church, and does not have the authority to govern over the United States. That authority is given to the President of the United States alone. Even if the President of the Church were to give direction to a President of the United States, it would be as counsel, not commandment. The Church understands very well the levels of authority, and who has the authority to do what. That concept is deeply rooted in the organization of the Church and the Priesthood, and the Church would never step beyond those bounds. Even if it had, the President would have no obligation to obey.
Oh, if you are a devout Mormon, the church states that what you say is not so. Mitt has to place the church first. He has taken a vow of consecration. (In the book) see here:
Th e Law of Consecration
Th e other signifi cant oath Mitt Romney has sworn to obey is the Law of
Consecration. In the LDS temple ritual, the offi ciator says to the temple
“patrons,”
We are instructed to give unto you the Law of Consecration as
contained in the book of Th e Doctrine and Covenants, in connection
with the Law of the Gospel and the Law of Sacrifi ce which you have
already received. It is that you do consecrate yourselves, your time,
talents and everything which the Lord has blessed you, or with which
he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,
for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the
establishment of Zion.
You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and
these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration
as contained in Th e Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate
yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has
blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of
God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.
lellimecnar,
Why do you have a 'President of the Church' if each is to follow his own conscience and interpret the Bible for themselves?
If individuals were to interpret the Bible for themselves without any direction or instruction, there would be nothing but chaos and contention. You're forgetting where the Bible came from. God spoke to prophets, prophets wrote down the teachings, and we have some of those writings bound together in one book called the Bible. If there were no prophets, we would have no Bible. The Bible was never meant to be the end-all source of spiritual knowledge. There is a lot of missing information, and a lot of writings that were either lost or considered unimportant by the councils who compiled the Bible. The Book of Jude quotes from a Book of Enoch, which we don't have in the Bible. There is also mention of a Book of Jasher which is nowhere to be found in the Bible. The Bible is not and was never meant to be the complete word of God. To say so is borderline blasphemy: you shut the mouth of God by saying that he will speak no more. We still need prophets because we still need answers, and we need the keys of the Kingdom that Christ gave to Peter. We believe that Peter, James, and John gave the Priesthood authority to administer and perform the sacred ordinances such as baptism. Without that authority, you're just taking a really quick bath with your clothes on. If we have no President of the Church (which is what Peter was at the time) then we have no authority to baptize. Without faith, repentance, and baptism, we can't even think about salvation through the Atonement of Christ.
If you were in a Science class, and each student was given a few pages out of the textbook, would everyone be able to figure out the rest without a teacher? I don't think so. You might be able to guess correctly with some things, and you might be able to piece a few things together, but without someone who has read the whole book, and who has the credentials to teach the subject, you can never understand the whole subject. That is why we need a prophet.
lellimecnar,
So your church president is a prophet?
Yes, he is. We believe that the President of the Church, his two counselors (making up the First Presidency) along with each of e Twelve Apostles are each prophets, seers, and revelators, and that they each have the authority (keys) to govern over the Lord's Kingdom here on Earth. They are given stewardship over God's children, and are special witnesses of Jesus Christ.
Ms. Erickson, you gravely misunderstand and misrepresent the words of the temple covenants. The Law of Consecration does not say that you and everything you do are property of the Church, but rather that everything you are and everything you have has been given to you by the Lord, and that as such, you are obligated to give back to your community and to the Church. We are each given gifts, and we are supposed to use those gifts to further the work of God. The Bible teaches that. Also, a Book of Mormon prophet (King Benjamin) taught that "When ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God." The President of the United States is an office of public service. Whomever is elected as President, whether Mormon or not, is using their talents and God-given gifts to serve his or her fellow men, and is therefore serving God.
"Let me just say that there are good people in both the Mormon and Muslim religions who are striving to live a righteous life according to what they believe. It’s just that some beliefs have been proven to be patently false."
The same thing can be said about pretty much any religion including the one you choose to follow. No religion can claim to be 100% correct or rational, just as no human being can claim to be 100% correct or rational (as witnessed in this article). Religion doesn't make a person inherently good. It's what you do with your life and how you use your existence to help those who are different from you.
I'm a recovering Southern Baptist, and I understand the strong feelings one has, in looking back at a childhood filled with deceit, overrun with brainwashing, wrapped in lies. But unlike Tricia, I didn't swap one Invisible Friend for another. I.e., her realizations about the Latter Day Saints are valid, and now she needs to apply the same level of criticism to her current church.
The question is – how Mormon is he? This arguement is similar to what Kennedy endured about being Catholic. JFK didn't bow to Rome. So will Mitt bow to the LDS teachings that is still up in the air. I have issues with the LDS church, however I can rejoice that they are connected to something Divine, however, how they treat their women and how some members refuse to embrace anyone outside of their faith – unless they are trying to recruit you – and if you don't become a Mormon in a short amount of time usually that these types will drop you in a second.
Mitt takes his faith and religion very
seriously and has held the offi ces of missionary, missionary zone leader,
assistant to the mission president (the highest position a missionary can
hold), bishop, and stake president in the LDS church. And let’s not forget
that he was also a graduate of Brigham Young University. You cannot attain
the “calling” from the Lord to serve as a Mormon bishop or stake president
unless you are a thoroughly entrenched and obedient Mormon. Mitt Romney
comes from a long lineage of Mormonism which spans no less than four
generations; he is certainly deeply entrenched in the Mormon doctrine.
How many books did you sell today Tricia Erikson? How much does your book cost?
The only "offices" that you mention that are actual offices in the Church are Bishop and Stake President. I'm sorry, but you make yourself sound ignorant to refer to "missionary" "zone leader" and "assistant to the President" as "offices." They are not offices, and they mean very little to the average member of the Church. If someone were to brag about being a zone leader on their mission, they would get laughed at. For example, in my mission, it was the missionaries who needed help staying focused on the Lord that were called as mission leadership, not the most obedient. How long has it been since you left the Church? Cause you sound like you were never an active member at all.
The "Mormon" church's official statement on political neutrality: http://newsroom.lds.org/official-statement/political-neutrality
Mitt is a " TBM " or true blue Mormon. He takes his faith very seriously. He has served as a bishop and stake president. He is not a jack Mormon or inactive Mormon. He is a temple attending Mormon. Huntsman on the other hand...... not so sure about his devotion to the LDS church. Kennedy was no devout Catholic folks. Traditional Catholic yes, but devoted , definately no. If Mitt had no gone thru the temple and is an in active Mormon this would be a very different situation.
Tricia, I had many of the same concerns you did. After reading many of the anti-mormon articles on the Internet, I decided to pray to God to learn if the LDS Church was true. When I prayed, I felt a strong confirmation from God that the LDS Church is indeed the Church of Jesus Christ in latter days. You can also have this same confirmation. I have now been a member of the LDS Church for almost 8 years. I can say, with certainty, that my life is better for it. I can also say that there is no question that the answer I received earlier was from the Lord. If ever you have questions, or wish to speak with a representative from the Church, please visit http://www.mormon.org. I am also more than happy to assist with any questions you may have. My E-mail address is elderstark@yahoo.com.
here here!
jacob,
I too prayed about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon and God told me it was NOT true. I have a tetstimony that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that HIS finished work on Calvary is what saves me. I have been given the gift of eternal life , not because of my works or ordinances performed, but because Jesus' shed blood has saved me. I will live eternally with God. Why would I need to be a Mormon when I have Jesus?
Wow. Tricia,
Dorothy,
Tricia stands on the ROCK that is higher than us. Throw your stone and your mud, but do you really think a Christ follower will stop speaking truth simply becuase the deceived don't want their secrets revealed?
What a complete load of utter CRAP! NO ONE is forced to be a Mormon. If Romney is elected, he won't force anyone to be a Mormon.
By crusading against Mormons, or any religion or any philosophy, you show yourself to an intelorant and pompous bigot. Who appointed any of you as judge jury and executioner of ANY religion or science that you disagree with?!
You slam Mitt Romney for being a good Mormon, but how does he stack up with any other presidential candidate that are devout followers of other religions?
You and the other intolerant haters posting comments should be ashamed of yourselves!!
exerpt from the book:
Th e Kool-Aid was off ered up to America in a slick, fl owery speech about
faith. When you think about it, in this tolerant era, the creed of tolerance
is politically correct; therefore, intolerance of Mitt’s religion would be
considered bigotry, right? Well, let’s see … Mormons emphatically say
and believe that Th e Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the
Mormon Church, is the “one and only true church” on the face of this
earth. Translated (no pun intended), that means all religions other than
the Mormon religion are false. Would this not mean that the Mormons
are not tolerant of all faiths?
So not believing that religions are true makes us intolerant of them? Sound logic.
It is one thing to disbelieve in someone else's faith. It is quite another to openly deceive for profit. But it appears this isn't the first time you've done that.
Official standpoint of the LDS church:
"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."
Yeah Mormons sound way intollerant. Especially compared to a woman who just declared millions of Americans are unfit to run for office because of their faith.
I have to be honest, I am a little disgusted that this interview is even being hosted on this by CNN. Where is the interview with the virulant racists who hate Obama because of his race? This woman is full of hatred and lies. CNN, you would be wise to do a more thorough job at fact checking the things you post on your site. I can't imagine you would host an interview with a member of the KKK who spreads lies about black people being less than human on your site. This makes me sick!
And you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.
..quoted the obsessively bigoted woman.
LOL
For anyone that really wants to know the truth about Mormons, there are plenty of rebuttable sources about the religion, both from devout members and those that are not. I promise that if you take the time to do the actual research for yourself, you will see that Ms. Erickson's words are full of hatred and lies. The truth is out there. It is up to you to find it.
All one has to do is pick up the the Mormon standard works and read about Joseph Smith's revelations that men will become " Gods" .... D & C 132. It's right in there in your sacred works.... and don't forget the part int he BofMormon where it states that indegenous Amercians were cursed with a dark skin? One does not have to read anti Mormon sources, all they have to do is pick up the sacred books of the mormons and they will read and find out for themselves the FACTS about Mormonism.
This has the smell of bigotry written all over it.
Kevin,
Why do you think this piece is bigoted? What makes you think that? And are you LDS by chance?
Regards,
Fail
It appears all Tricia and Ed have done is put themselves high on the Secret Service/FBI's watch list when Romney does replace Obama. Obviously there are some strong feelings there, probably even too strong. For whatever reason they have had a terrible experience with the LDS church, obviously. The LDS church has a very positive influence on millions of people. It hasn't been perfect and has had its growing pains for sure. Tricia and Ed interpret and shape ceremonies and doctrines of the church very negatively and we all know people or ourselves at times that can make anything negative if we so choose. They may state some "facts" about the church, but their interpretation of what they mean and how they should be perceived by others are definitely NOT "facts". That is clearly their own view and feelings seeing the "facts" how they want them to be. Let us not forget the uplifting and positive impact these ceremonies and doctrines have had on people's lives inside and outside the church. Those experiences are real and genuine since that is the more common result. Your free agency is always there. No one is forcing you to do anything.
As far as being President is concerned, that would be Romney's job. Not his church calling. Not his mission. Not anything of the sort. The job is to properly represent the interests of the citizens of the United States of America as a whole to the best of his ability. Doing anything more or less would be dishonest.
" When" Romeny replaces Obama? That is not going to happen. Michelle Bachman has a better chance of getting the GOP nomination than Romney does. Believe me, Americans will not vote for a Mormon.
Does the "suffering my life to be taken" in the secret temple ceremonies mean anything to you? Here is an excerpt in my book which begins the revealling of the secret signs and tokens, oaths and death penalties that I experienced on my wedding day in the temple. It gets much worse than this:
From the book, "Can Mitt Romney Serve Two Masters?"
In fact, up until the 1990s, Mormon ritual participants were so sworn
by oath to secrecy that if they revealed anything about these temple rituals,
this act would be punishable by death. Here is the exact oath taken in the
temple ceremony by participants:
44
Tricia Erickson
“I will now explain the covenant and obligation of secrecy which
are associated with this token, its name, sign and penalty, and which
you will be required to take upon yourselves. If I were receiving my own
Endowment today, and had been given the name of “John” as my New
Name, I would repeat in my mind these words, after making the sign, at
the same time representing the execution of the penalty: I, John, covenant
that I will never reveal the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its
accompanying name, sign, and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suff er
my life to be taken.”
Again, the hypocrite Trish giving an excerpt from her book that she's promoting (the only reason she's doing any of this – I laugh at her exploit as a daughter of a 'former Mormon bishop' – she knows less about Mormons than most haters). My only questing is this; why is she still alive? If she made that blood oath, shouldn't she have had her throat slit from ear to ear? Just asking and wondering...
I am astounded that CNN would give this woman such a forum.
Why are you astounded? The woman speaks truth and truth needs to be heard.
I have read this thread, and from what I have seen the woman speaks half-truths and doesn't understand that she is following what Satan does in these half-truths.
Tricia,
Why are man-made Fourth Century Creeds superior to First Century Christianity?
First Century Christianity that was established by Christ Himself!!!
As someone who was born in to the indoctrination of Mormonism,
my heart’s desire in writing this book is to expose the falsehood of the
Mormon Church so that many, including my loved ones, will be set
free, as I have been. Moreover, so that the American people, including
Christians, will know the truth about this counterfeit religion that many
mistakenly assume is just another Christian doctrine. It behooves us all
to hold this knowledge, especially in the instance that a long-standing,
prominant, indoctrinated Mormon may very well be naively voted into
White House.
God bless you Tricia, we are praying for you! And for the LDS people. That they too may be set free from the deception.
Am I the only one who noticed that the expert, Trish, didn't answer the question... at all? Lol, what an expert!
Tricia, you claim that you wished somebody else had written this book and since they hadn't you thought you had too. You didn't look too far since you have not found any of the stuff that you are claiming anywhere else. The whole foundation of you writing the book is a false foundation.
Trisha has apparently been made free... from facts.
Tricia: I do not know all your reasons , to me the main subjet is that you have a lot of pain in you. When any person leave the Church the pain caused for the absense of the spirit, take the same reaction, normal, but we pray for you (and I spect tha you make the same for us)
You know, Ms. Erickson, if you keep telling yourself that, you might actually believe it... but no one else will. If you actually cared about the salvation of others, you wouldn't start by bashing their current beliefs. As a returned missionary, I can tell you that it doesn't work. People are much more willing to listen to you if you focus on the things they have right, and then build upon that. We believe most of what mainstream Christianity believes, but we also claim to have the "fulness of the Gospel," meaning that, since we have a prophet, and modern-day revelation, the Lord is able to clear up the false doctrines of the Dark Ages, and provide us with the pure religion that He taught from the time of Adam.
All of these "strange doctrines" as you call them, do not come from the Book of Mormon, as a matter of fact... they come straight from the Bible.
Find why Momon theology is based on First Century Christianity here:
http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com
Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church are asking us to place blind
faith in his interpretation without a shred of evidence to back up any of
his claims. Th erefore, it is not unreasonable to question why God would
leave historical and physical evidence of manuscripts of the Bible yet take
away these plates. Christianity possesses proof of its text for every Scripture
except the entire writings of Joseph Smith. Th is should be a red fl ag for
those who are dedicated to this religion or considering becoming so.
Excellent point, Tricia. Where is the evidence for the Book of Mormon? Geographical evidence? I love the LDS people. They are sincere .... but they are sincerely deceived. This is why I can't vote for Mitt Romney. He is a member of a religious cult that prescribes total allegiance and obdedience to their "priesthood leaders".
If only the three witnesses of the Book of Mormon were like you Trish... then they would have denied the Book of Mormon. Just a little background for those who don't know, Matin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer all saw the plates, and all 3 fell away from the church for various reasons. Two eventually came back, but Dave Whitmer remained very anti-Mormon through his whole life, but even on his deathbed testified of the divinity and authenticity of the Book of Mormon. He hated Joseph Smith and easily could have lied, but didn't... go look that up, maybe you can find a way to scam more money out of people again Trishy. Lol
There is no such thing as "blind faith." There is a blind belief, but faith cannot be blind. Faith is based on spiritual evidences, belief is based on trust. To have Faith in Christ, you must receive a witness from the Holy Spirit that Jesus is in fact the Christ. If you only believe that Jesus is the Christ because the Bible says so, then you do not have faith, you merely believe the Bible. It is the same with any doctrine: if all you have is words in a book, then you cannot have faith. Faith requires prayer, study, and the Holy Ghost. I have faith in Jesus Christ not because I was taught about Him as a child, or because my parents read the Bible to me. I have faith in Jesus Christ because I have felt the power of His Atonement. I have felt His love, and I have experienced the truthfulness of His Gospel. I have faith that Thomas S. Monson is a prophet of God because I feel the Holy Spirit testify to me that the words he speaks are from God. As I study the scriptures and learn more about the Gospel, The Spirit remembers me of things that I learned from the Book of Mormon, and from the leaders of the Church, and I gain a greater understanding because of it. I attend the temple and feel the presence of God, and receive inspiration to understand what is being taught. That is how I know that the Temple is the House of God.
Don't talk to me about "blind faith." I have no time to consider it. There is no such thing.
...and you do realize, don't you, that we do not have any original copies of anything from the Bible? If your argument were valid, then we would still have the Arc of the Covenant, and the stone tablets of Moses.
Dave,
With all due respect, vows are not made in the LDS temple sealing. Covenants are made. If you recall there is a time when the temple sealer tells the couple that they will be blessed and become " priests and priestesses" and have eternal increase ( spirit children eternally etc.). The couple sits across the alter wearing green aprons, and masonic hats and robes. Please, there is nothing in similarity between a civil or christian or jewish wedding ceremony and the LDS sealing ceremony. Mormon temple ritual is steeped in Masonry. I say this in respect, but you are giving the idea that there is nothing strange or odd. Yes, sir it is odd that mormons who attend the temple put on a green apron, that Satan commands them to put on ( "put on your aprons, see you are naked.......) and the masonic garb. Nothing could be stranger. Americans have a right to know what a future candidate beleives, including odd temple rituals. Let's be honest and frank. Thanks,
@ Amos 3:3. sorry according to the King James Bible... that scripture in Amos says...Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?..
the scripture "Where two or more are gathered in My name, there am I in the midst" is found in Matthew 18:20
so, what Bible did your scripture come from.... probably the Book of Mormon. we have read that book and there is no truth found in it that lines up w/the Word of God.
so, "We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins." isn't true? And "There shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent." These are false then, right? If there is no truth in the Book of Mormon, then these statements must be false.
To read personal statements from more than 250 plainly indoctrinated, brainwashed, and dysfunctional Mormons, see
http://mormonscholarstestify.org/
http://mormonscholarstestify.org/category/testimonies
None of these people should be allowed to vote, apparently, let alone to serve in high political office. Perhaps they should be captured and placed in evangelical Christian(c) re-education camps?
Hi, Daniel. Wow. The LDS church is pulling out the "big guns" now. For those of you who don't Daniel Peterson is one of the LDS church's premier apologists. He works for the LDS church, and devotes his life to defending his faith. Can I ask Daniel, did the bretheren call you in to do this, or are you here on your own accord?
Regards,
LOL, "The Church" hasn't asked me to post here.
It's Saturday morning, and I'm putting off re-painting my bathroom, So I get on line, and I see a reference to this interview. I read the comments and, like everybody else here, decide to comment.
No need to invoke a Big Corporate Mormon Plot.
But I do recommend the site to anybody who might be interested in learning what believing Mormons have to say for themselves:
http://mormonscholarstestify.org/
http://mormonscholarstestify.org/category/testimonies
Oh yes: I should clarify that I "work for the Church" in the sense that I teach Arabic and Islamic studies at Brigham Young University, which is owned by the Church, and I also founded and edit BYU's dual-language Middle Eastern Texts Initiative.
I'm a pretty sinister character, and anything I say should automatically be dismissed out of hand.
I probably shouldn't even be permitted to vote, given what Ms. Erickson says in her interview.
So, by your logic, we shouldn't listen to him because he's very pro-Mormon... but listening to the author, who is very anti-Mormon is okay... Lol
Excuse me Mr. Peterson, no need to go straight to your usual defense of personal attacks. For anyone interested in seeing the absolute true differences in mormon doctrine vs Biblical Christianity, visit answeringmormons.blogspot.com
Mormonism is NOT compatible with Biblical Christianity. It denies the very fundamental doctrines at the core of Christianity:
- The nature of God
- The Trinity
- The nature of man
- Who Jesus is
Mormonism teaches a false gospel, promotes a false Jesus, and offers NO salvation.
Praise God for people like Tricia willing to speak the truth.
In Him,
Jamie
answeringmormons.blogspot.com – sounds legit, I bet they're experts on the matter – possibly as good as you are! Lol
What do you think the Bible teaches about these things? They certainly don't teach the creeds of fourth century Catholic bishops. We believe in the Christianity that the Bible teaches, not the creeds that the fourth century councils decided upon. If the Bible taught so plainly that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost were trapped inside a single being like someone with multiple personality disorder, then why would there be a need to have the first Council of Nicaea in 325 AD? The answer: because it is false, and there were wicked men preaching that false doctrine, and confusing enough to cause a problem. Besides the fact that all those who taught the true nature of God were murdered as heretics. Penalty of death silences all but the most faithful.
Why should we assume that "traditional Christianity" is right and should be the standard by which all other religions are judged?
I was raised "traditional Christianity" and so it's not like I don't know the difference. I do wish people would stop assuming that I don't know what I'm doing. Or any Mormon for that matter.
So Daniel, Are you related to Mark E. Peterson who also taught " Mormon Racism in Perspective as Taught at the College level " at BYU?
No, I am not related to Mark E. Petersen.
This writer unknowingly makes the argument that nobody with an unscientific belief system is qualified to be President. It would be laughable, if not so sad, that she refers to some Mormon and Muslim beliefs as proven wrong, while holding to equally false fundamentalist Christian beliefs. Flat Earth, anyone?
Hey rtk25301, do you do any research before making an assumption like this? No where does the Bible say the earth is flat. It says the Lord sits on the circle of the earth. The word used for circle is "sphere". So the Bible told us the earth was a circle long before "science" did.
It's notable that Bushman doesn't in any way deny the oath to the Law of Consecration which promises devoting every talent and resource to the use of the LDS.
Whatever Erickson's residual feelings about the LDS, she accurately quotes the oath that both Romney and Huntsman have taken and correctly illustrates the seriousness of the oath by noting the suicidal remorse/revenge murder consequence of defying it that was practiced at the time Romeny and Huntsman took it.
Americans who think that Romney or Huntsman will best serve the US should vote for them but not without taking into account the fact that they have taken this oath to the LDS which, to their minds, has eternal consequences and effects their ability to become gods.
If you look at the text for the ceremony, the "oath" referred to is related to a promise to keep some things secret–it is not an oath "to the law of consecretion" or an oath to keep the "law of consecretion."
Ideally, Tricia Erickson would know this and represent it correctly. That she does not could have any number of innocent causes, of course.
The interpretation of the Law of Consecration presented here by Ms. Erickson is a false one. We do not vow to submit ourselves to the will of our prophet in these temple ceremonies. We promise to give all that the Lord has given to us back to Him. The Book of Mormon teaches that "when ye are in the service of your fellow men ye are only in the service of your God." Therefore, by using his talents to serve the United States, any President of the United States is keeping this promise, whether they have made it in the temple or not.
when a mormon claims that the lords calling is this or that it has a completely different meaning than biblical Christianity. the mormon lord or god is the god of this world. the bible explains the god of this world is satan. i have examined their doctrine extensively and they use many of the same words like grace and other familiar words but have a different meaning than Christianity.it is a ploy to throw people off that are unaware of their cult like believes. They are serenely nice, but behind closed doors I have witnessed what rely goes on.it is not pretty many of them secretly practice polygamy is slc, ut. and it is ok with the church as long as the public are unaware of what is going on, like many of their secret rituals that are performed in their temples that are an abomination to the one and only GOD of the holy scriptures. That is why they were persecuted and would not fallow GODS law and the law of the land. their Jesus has many wife's as does the father witch was a flesh and bone man from a distant planet called colob and by his good works became one of many gods. they believe he is the god of this planet. they also believe that if they fallow mormon law and are temple worthy, pay them money and fallow many laws that man created , they can become gods and practice polygamy in the next life. smith was a 3rd degree mason and they use these practices in their temple ceremony.with a jester of their blood atonement reenactment of having their throats cut from ear to ear if they were to expose any of the temple ceremony to people that are not temple worthy.also the blood atonement was used in real life situations. in their doctrine it teaches that some sins are not covered by the blood of the mormon jesus and a person would have to self atone spill their own blood for the redemption of some sins. many other very bizarre rituals are performed by this dangerous to the soul cult. this day and age they can not perform many of their satanic rituals for obvious reasons. this is why the firing squad is still an option in utah. WE as biblical Christians know and trust in the true CHRIST of scripture and know that the all efficient and perfect atoning blood of Christ takes away all sin.
Any references to back up any of this post? I can rant too without backing up my claims, but it certainly doesn't make them true. Lol
I'm getting really sick of my comments not being posted...
When you say that you have studied our beliefs extensively, what do you mean? Because you obviously haven't studied our actual beliefs.
I have tried about 20 times to post my comment here, and it isn't posting!!!
WOW! You are so far off your rocker. Ignorance is bliss.
I realize that this may be off-topic, but I vetted Mitt Romney for two years when his name began to emerge after the 2004 election. While I don't see/hear "hate" from the author here, nor have I met a mormon that I didn't like (though I humbly/confidently reject the tenets of LDS), I think that Romney is wholly inadequate to be President for totally different reasons. He was a major catalyst to the deterioration of MA. RomneyCare (w/$50 abortion co-pays that were NOT mandatory as he contends), Goodridge, the changing of the word "taxes" into "fees," lol. The best thing I can say is that if the states are the laboratories of democracy, then MA, under Mitt Romney's administration proved what didn't work, ha. And the capper is that i/o acknowledging ANY consequences whatsoever (e.g. RomneyCare), he morphs into a new type of "end-all/be-all" candidate who is recklessley & gratuitously arrogant!!! With all due respect to his supporters, if he is America's "answer," then I humbly suggest that – inadvertently or not – we are stiill asking fundamentally wrong questions.
This 'lady' is nothing more than a loser (just google her and you'll find the government has gone after her for scams) who is exploiting the current situation for money. She claims at 9 years old she didn't believe in the LDS doctrine, but then went on to be married in a temple? Any hypocrisy there? Oh wait, I bet those big bad Mormons made her do it. Also, I'm assuming she made those blood oath covenants, and has turned around and broken them. Is her throat slit? Wait, the big bad Mormons didn't execute her once she broke an oath? Lol, and reading about how she portrays the doctrine of the LDS is humorous at best, I think she was actually the daughter of some anti-Mormon cult from the silly generalizations she makes. I know a lot of people out there supporting her are probably worse than most Mormons as far as 'brain washing' goes – born and raised and born again rednecks who get their 'facts' about Mormons from people like this loser, obviously a disgruntled former member. Great job people, and all the left-wingers out there are rejoicing because conservatives are simply splitting apart because of ignorance, because all of these 'intelligent' people out there that eat crap that people like this author throw out at them will keep Obama in office if Romney is the candidate.
I UNDERSTAND THE MORMON FAITH VERY WELL, PROBABLY BETTER THAN MANY OF ITS MEMBERS AND IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY. I HAVE STUDIED IT IN MUCH DETAIL WITH AN OPEN MIND. I HAVE FOUND IT IS A DANGEROUS SATANIC CULT AND SHOULD BE BURIED AND FORGOTTEN ABOUT . JUST LIKE ALL THE FOOLISH PEOPLE THAT SACRIFICED THEIR OWN LIVES, IN BLOOD ATONEMENT MURDERS THAT JOE AND BRIGHAM PROCLAIMED WAS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION. THIS AS WITH MANY TEACHINGS IS AN ABOMINATION TO THE GOD OF CREATION AND THE LAW OF THE LAND. THIS IS WHY UTAH OFFERS THE FIRING SQUAD TO THIS DAY. THEY WILL NOT BE HONEST ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IT AS WITH ITS FALSE DOCTRINE NEED TO KEEP IT SECRET AS TO TRY TO CONVINCE UNAWARE PEOPLE TO BECOME VICTIMS AND TANGLED IN THE WEB OF SATAN.
Why isn't your name in CAPS? Lol
funny post
The whole foundation of this country is religious freedom and the mormons recognized that when they started their LDS church in New York. That should be embraced. Who cares where Gov. Romney goes to church – we should be concerned about whether or not he is going to continue to leverage the US the same way Bain Capital (a company he used to run) continued to leverage Burger King.
This is what I know about the Mormons, they seem just as Christian and good people as any other religion. The video above is one of my favorites from the Mormons.
Again, great job in giving an opinion. Here's a fact for you Jamie – you're an idiot. Lol
Big thanks to all of you trecherous anti-american mormons who have served our country so bravely over the years!!!
I wonder if Tricia thinks a Freemason would be fit to be President? If not, she has disqualified George Washington and many of the Founding Fathers of the USA.
It is extremely easy to take the beliefs of a minority and portray them in a way that makes them look silly – particularly if the beliefs and/or practices are not widely known. If I said that I knew a religion that believed in human sacrifice for the expiation of sin and said it's members engage in ritualistic symbolic cannibalism, what would you think? However, I have just described Catholicism and Christianity in general (Jesus' sacrifice on the cross plus Holy Communion with bread and wine representing the body and blood of Christ). I could argue that I am 100% accurate. However I am also 100% wrong because my representation is a distortion of Catholic belief in such a way as to make it unrecognisable.
In a similar way, Trish has done this with LDS beliefs. Sure, LDS beliefs are abhorrent to some Fundamentalist & Evangelical Christians. However this particular subset of F&ECs are not just intolerant of Mormons. They are intolerant of nearly everyone that doesn't believe as they do. Many do not consider Catholic's Christian. For Trish to be "really" honest, she should list the groups other than Mormons and Muslims that she doesn't like.
Personally, I think this is really a non-issue. I live in Australia. Our PM is a female atheist in a defacto relationship an was born outside of Australia. None of these things even rate as issues when it comes to politics. It shouldn't in the US either.
Wow. I'm actually stunned that a decent outlet like CNN would run such bigotry. Pure vitriol and cultural assassination. Mormonsim now is more than mere theology. It is a people, a geography, an ethnicity really. Every bit as tangible and rich as Judaism or Islam.
What I just read here is hatred, loathing and intolerance. Frankly, it's flat irresponsible socially as it is calculated to foment mistrust and hatred of a people. A scary attack on a major American segment. Shameful.
Jews comprise 3% of the U.S.
LDS comprise 3% of the U.S.
Do not Mormons have the right to run for Elster office? To pitch for the Yankees? To invent things like the television (invented by a Mormon), or create a company like JetBlue that transport millions of non-Mormons?
It seems whatever is in the Mormon tap water is having a grand effect on this remarkable and admirable people. Anti-Mormon rants like this really say more about the insecurities and fears of the author than the LDS themselves.
Go to SLC and have a panini sandwich from the Nauvoo Cafe on the outdoor terrace on Temple Square and feel the calm of one of America's great ethnicities. Pass on the vitriol from haters.
Is this the same Patricia Erickson who was named in a government complaint in 1999 against companies that were fraudulently inducing people to pay to become professional models? If it is not, could she clear this up?
"The Commission announced on May 26, that it had won a permanent injunction against National Talent Associates, another New Jersey-based seller of child-modeling services. In addition, to further educate consumers on how to avoid being victims of a modeling rip-off, the Commission has published a consumer brochure, "If You've Got 'the Look' ... Look Out! Avoiding Modeling Scams." The brochure tells consumers what the unscrupulous model and talent scouts say versus what they actually mean.
"The FTC's complaint names Model 1, Inc., based in Tyson's Corner, Virginia, and its president, Jason Hoffman; Creative Talent Management, Inc. and its president, Ralph Edward Bell; and The Erickson Agency, Inc. and its president, Patricia Erickson. Both Creative Talent and The Erickson Agency are based in McLean, Virginia."
What I have to say in response to Ms. Erikson's post is far too long to write as a comment here. Instead, I will summarize my thoughts and leave a link to my blog where I have responded to her comments in full. If you care to read the full post, follow the link. In summary, the tone of Ms. Erikson’s post appeals to sensationalism and hysteria. She relies on brainwashing as a pejorative term to sensationalize her writing and create an alarmist reaction, she fails to offer facts to support wild claims, contradicts her own account of why she left the LDS Church, presents a specious argument regarding why consecration precludes Mitt from serving as president, and shows disdain for the LDS faith based on a lack of doctrinal knowledge. In fact, her argument reminds me of a neighbor hissing through her teeth for our attention to gossip over the backyard fence about the "new people" who just moved in. "Oh, can you believe those Mormons! Did you know they wear funny underwear! And that temple, you'll never believe what goes on inside there.”
I would recommend if anyone reads this comment who truly wants to know more about the LDS faith, that he or she visit mormon.org or lds.org and read one of the enlightening posts or articles written there. Furthermore, you can read my full response to Ms. Erikson's post at markdmason.wordpress.com.
Is the truth hate speech? You have not even read the book. You are misleading others to save the cult. You personally attack instead of learning the FACTS of the church you are involved in. There is nothing but fact in my book...however, I'm sure that you would not like for anyone to know the truth as 10% of the gross of a Mormon's income goes to the church of which there is no accounting to its members of how the money is spent or where it goes. It's a great scheme to the tune of massive billions of dollars the church receives from its members to place in to private business enterprises with no accountability while the church enjoys tax exempt status all the way to the bank.
Your facts, are only half-truths if what I have read from you here is indeed what you claim to be facts. You obviously have never had an understanding of the LDS church.
Trisha, you have lied numerous times on this very forum (and avoid responding when people call you out on it). Why would I buy a calculator that only gives the right answers half the time? The same is true with your book.
It is a testament to my faith that a woman so obsessed with taring it down has to, in order to discredit one of its members, focus on this small part of a ceremony that she cites as existing over 20 years ago, while looking past the tremendous amount of good that the church has done for individuals and for the world, and the leadership that it has already produced in our government.
I am a better citizen, a better patriot, and a better man because of my faith in Jesus Christ and my knowledge of His atonement. I am also a free-thinking individual who absolutely loves my church. This woman's blanket classification of Mormons as "brainwashed" is an attempt for her to comfort herself in her decision to abandon her faith, and possibly to help her sell more copies of her book.
She has left the church, but she can not leave it alone.
I say in my book the Mormon folks are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. It's jusst that you are decieved and because you are still in the religion, you can't see the thruth about what you are involved in. You, as a Mormon are taught that you are not to think outside of what the church or prophet tells you. I wrote this book so that good people like you just might venture out there to see the truth about what they are envolved in so that they can leave the church and pursue a relationship with the REAL Jesus Christ...not the dogma that if constantly fed to all Mormons through their leaders. Step up and investigate and if you do (read my book), you will see what I'm talking about and it could very well save you in to REAL SALVATION, not Mormon salvation.
Here's what your church teaches and makes its members fearul if they seek the truth outside of the church. Your own salvation depends on the Prophet and the Mormon Church....Not the living God
Excerpt from Can Mitt Romney Serve Two Masters"
According to Ward Teacher’s message, “Any Latter-day Saint who
denounces or opposes, whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine
advocated by the prophets, seers, revelators of the church, is cultivating
the spirit of apostasy. One cannot speak evil of the Lord’s anointed …
and retain the Holy Spirit in his heart. Th is sort of game is Satan’s favorite
pastime, and he has practiced it to believing souls since Adam. He [Satan]
wins a great victory when he can get members of the church to speak
against their leaders and to do their own thinking.”
“When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose
a plan—it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other which
is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy.
God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate
repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave
him a stranger to the Kingdom of God.”28 [Emphasis added]
Further teachings are recorded in Mormon literature and lectures from
an array of sources, including Th e Book of Mormon, Th e Doctrine and
Covenants, Th e Journal of Discourses and countless LDS websites, making
it hard to refute the fact that following is not only commanded, but to be
done without any alternative.
Tricia, You have great courage and thank you for speaking the truth. I have this question for the follower's of Joseph Smith. What makes Joseph Smith any different than Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8?
Simon the Sorcerer
9 Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, 10 and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” 11 They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. 12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
24 Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”
25 After they had further proclaimed the word of the Lord and testified about Jesus, Peter and John returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many Samaritan villages.
Tricia you stated, "If I did not love them, I would not try to save them." Why do Mormons need you to save them;Isn't that the job of the atonement of Christ? Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are most likely very aware of the fact that they can't reach perfection in this life. We strive to do whats right and let the atonement work and do the rest. It is twisted to believe that a service oriented, hard working, intelligent man with ethics would be harmful as President of the United States.
Tricia,
Your attempts to deceive are easy for me to see. With gross condescension, you presume to tell me what I am being taught. Yet to illustrate your point, you turn to an obscure paragraph published in the 1940's, (not written by church leadership) that I have never even heard of, let alone been instructed by.
In response to that specific statement you cite as being authoritative for Mormons, George A Smith, church president at the time said:
{"The leaflet to which you refer, and from which you quote in your letter, was not “prepared” by “one of our leaders.” However, one or more of them inadvertently permitted the paragraph to pass uncensored. By their so doing, not a few members of the Church have been upset in their feelings, and General Authorities have been embarrassed.
I am pleased to assure you that.. the passage quoted does not express the true position of the Church. Even to imply that members of the Church are not to do their own thinking is grossly to misrepresent the true ideal of the Church, which is that every individual must obtain for himself a testimony of the truth of the Gospel, [and] must, through the redemption of Jesus Christ, work out his own salvation. The Lord Himself does not attempt coercion in His desire and effort to give peace and salvation to His children. He… leaves every person free to choose.. This plan the Authorities of the Church try to follow.
Joseph Smith said: “I want liberty of thinking and believing as I please.” "I will not seek to compel any man to believe as I do, only by the force of reasoning, for truth will cut its own way.” "I teach them correct principle, and they govern themselves."
The Church gives to every man his free agency, and admonishes him to use the reason and good judgment with which God has blessed him."}
But you didn't bother to offer this response in your "book" did you?
I find it interesting that you also claim to be an expert on the history of my personal search for truth. I have searched for truth in countless places, all of which I can assure you are MUCH more credible than your biased book. I am a Mormon because I choose to be, because this gospel has brought me and my loved ones closer to our Savior and closer to each other than we could ever be without it.
Your lying reeks not only of an effort to drag others down, but an attempt to make money in the process by selling your bigoted agenda.
I am not buying what you are selling.
thats actually pretty funny. "ill prove you wrong, and to do it, let me quote my book (which is on sale by the way, buy it at your local bookstore!) ... "
I was born a forth generation Mormon in Salt Lake City and know what they teach. Lets start by Mark E. Peterson's Mormon Racism in perspective as taught at the college level. How about Hebrews chapter 7 and the Melchisedec Priesthood which belongs to Jesus Christ alone. The Mormon elders claim to be on the same level as Jesus Christ himself. Only Satan would do that. So who is the liar? Joseph Smith the murderer, adulterer and false prophet or our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. By the way. You should look up Joseph Smith's White Horse Prophecy.
Another straw man lie. I'm right and you're wrong because you believe [insert made-up doctrine].
Michael, you seriously need to catch up on your research. You say that the Melchizedek priesthood belongs to Christ alone, yet it is named after a man named Melchizedek whom it is named after. Do you really think that priesthood got it's name from a man who did not hold it? Are you telling me that Melchizedek was Jesus? There has been an impressive body of research into this issue which you need to get your hands on. Melchizedek was made like unto the Son of God and abideth a Priest continually through the power of an endless life. What does Christ offer if not an endless life? The idea that this Priesthood is not transferable has been shown to be based on a poor translation of the text. The fact that Psalms contains the words, "The Lord has sworn and will not repent, thou art a Priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. Paul reasoned that ANOTHER Priest arose after the order of Melchizedek and not after Aaron. How could another Priest arise unless the Priesthood could be conferred on another? Your understanding of this issue is way out dated and mistaken.
The “White Horse prophecy” isn't really relevant to this discussion, but I have something to say about it.
There is no primary instance of Joseph Smith having recorded it personally. All we know of it is by way of a man named Edwin Rushton, who, from some time shortly after Joseph Smith's death, until the end of his own life, occasionally spoke of something that he claimed that Joseph Smith had told him. Around 1900—a few years before his own death in 1904—Rushton wrote down a detailed record of what he remembered of it. What he thus recorded is what is known as the White Horse Prophecy.
There is at least one known instance of Brigham Young quoting part of this alleged prophecy, and attributing it to Joseph Smith, but it is more likely that he heard it from Edwin Rushton than directly from Joseph Smith.
By all evidence, Edwin Rushton was an honest man, not likely to make such a thing up, but as we only have his claims about the White Horse Prophecy, it really can not be taken as better than hearsay.
As it happens, Edwin Rushton is my great-great grandfather. One of his daughters, Marie Elizabeth Rushton, married John Joseph Field. One of their daughters, Edna Verl Field, married Paul Everett Blaylock. One of their sons, Max Wayne Blaylock, married Mary Joan Stringham. One of their sons is me.
This woman says, speaking of Mormons that they have "bizarre secret ceremonies, rituals and beliefs". Yeah, like Immaculate conception, splashing water on people 'saves' them, and believing that a 800 year-old man built a boat, then collected 2 of every animal on and and all was peaceful for 40 days and nights-and these beliefs are not bizarre! How much more bizarre could they be?
Tricia Erickson does realize that a large number of our Presidents have been Masons doesn't she? The Mormon ceremonies and the Masonic ceremonies are very similar. The Republic survived Masons, I suppose it would survive a Mormon.
EXTREME RACISM IN MITT ROMNEY'S MORMON CHURCH!
Mitt Romney’s church teaches that African-American people are cursed by God because of their lives in what is known as the “preexistence before their mortal state.”
Mormon Church history on Black Americans:
(Book Excerpt)
"Since the opinion and doctrines of the church are formed and based upon the teaching of the pre-existence, considering that God has passed judgment on the Africans and Native Americans, the segregation and discrimination cannot be ignored. While Mitt’s church has more recently tried to follow a more politically correct agenda, its history is replete with contrary evidence.
The Book of Mormon, the book that Mormonism is based on, accuses God of cursing Africans and Native Americans in the following passages of The Second Book of Nephi, chapter 5:
21. And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. 22. And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathesome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities. 23. And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.
In The (Mormon) Journal of Discourses, former Mormon Prophet Brigham Young adds emphasis in the following statement:
Classes of the human family that are black uncouth uncomely disagreeable and low in their habits wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind the first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings this was not to be and the lord put a mark upon him which is the flat nose and black skin trace mankind down to after the flood and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race that they should be the 11 servant of servants and they will be until that curse is removed and the abolitionists cannot help it nor in the least alter that decree how long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them that curse will remain upon them.40 Shall I tell you the law of G od in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain the penalty under the law of God is death on the spot.41 (Emphasis added)
It is impossible to read any of the above references and conclude that the Mormon Church has been anything less than racist. Weighing the evidence found in the books the Mormon Church uses to establish teachings makes it impossible to conclude that the LDS church suddenly changed its view of the Native American or the African-Americans"
Prior to the 1960s Southern Baptists supported segregation laws as well. And yet two Southern Baptists have been President since that time. Racial segregation has been an unfortunate fact of American life. The LDS Church no longer discriminates against anyone because of their race. I know for a fact the Romneys supported Civil Rights laws in the 1960s so that criticism simply doesn't fly. Why don't you look at Romney's political positions and compare them to the others? I'm more comfortable with Rick Santorum or Michele Bachmann for President, but I would vote for Romney if he received the Republican nomination. His religion doesn't mean a thing with regards to his qualification to be President.
First you say that Mitt Romney will give his all to the church and then you ignore the fact that the Romney family marched in the civil rights movement. Why is that? You are going to end up tripping yourself up with your rants which are of half-truths.
Tricia,
Do you consider Southern Baptists to be worthy of serving as President? How can that be since the major cause of their schism from the American Baptists in the 1860's was over the idea of slavery? During the antebellum period, pro slavery Christians argued extensively from the BIBLE that slavery was justified based on race. Paul sent the slave Philemon back to his master and told him to submit to him. Not only Southern Baptists but several so called fundamentalist or Evangelical groups during the years leading up to the civil war argued for slavery based on the idea of racial inferiority of blacks. Go read the material yourself. I am sure your excellent research skills will help you find the materials. So, in your view, it is unacceptable for Mormons to have a policy against sharing a Priesthood they didn't have with Blacks, but it is totally acceptable for Southern Christian Slave holders to deprive them of any human right whatever through chattel slavery? When did Mormon's ever practice that? When Joseph Smith ran for President he did so from Missouri as an ANTI Slavery candidate. Why would a racist living in Missouri in 1844 run on an Anti Slavery platform? This issue just shows how insincere and misinformed your research is.
God is good. Religion is bad. The more rules religions have, the worst they are. Trust Go, not religion.
That would make an excellent bumper sticker. Trust Go! I like it.
" If I did not love them, I would not try to save them." My question for Trishia is why do Mormons need Trishia to save them. Doesn't the atonement of Christ "save" Mormons as well as other faiths? Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are fully aware that they can't achieve perfection in this life. We strive to do whats right and let the atonement work and do the rest. It is twisted to believe that a service oriented, hard working, intelligent man with ethics would be harmful to a president of the United States.
There is a factual error in Erickson's statements that at the core of her key argument. She says that the symbolic vow she describes is a promise to to submit to violent death rather than break the covenant. There are two errors here. First, that symbolism was removed from the ceremony many years ago. Second, and more important, that symbol referred to a promise to "never reveal" the covenant itself. The people taking the temple covenants do not agree to submit to violent death if they break the covenants, but rather that if they fail to take the covenants seriously, they will incur "the judgment of God." The covenants, oaths, and secret signs connected with them are protected by vows of secrecy, and those are what Tricia Erickson is calling a "blood oath." This is a critical error in the argument that a person of the "Mormon" faith cannot be independent of the church leaders. I have to wonder if this omission was made in ignorance, or whether it was deliberate, seeing that it goes to the heart of her argument.
Joseph, you are incorrect, the blood oath in the temple 1990 was a promise to disembowel oneself, by sliting of the throat..this is called sucide. I know I am currently LDS but are on my way out of this cult. You are being corrected by an LDS person who has gone through the temple pal!!
Maybe you should read Josephs comment again...
"You are being corrected by an LDS person who has gone through the temple pal!!" wow, that must make you the most credible authority on the subject...
If you think a person can disembowel themselves by slitting their own throat, then you need to take a rudimentary anatomy class. No one ever promises to commit suicide. This is the ridiculous level things get to when people who know nothing about a topic start talking about it because they heard it from an "insider" who themselves misrepresents the topic in the first place. And people wonder why the Church never officially gets involved in the mud wrestling about half baked claims between half informed individuals? What could possibly be gained by doing so? It is sad for so many posting here to say, Tricia, thanks for giving us the truth, when they have absolutely NO IDEA of basis in fact for knowing she is giving them the truth. It is really sad, but it is the secret strength of yellow journalism that the vast majority of the public has no real interest in researching things like this, and will simply take Tricia's word for it. I am sure many rejected Christ in his time because it was far easier to trust the Pharisees and Sadducee s concerning Jesus than to actually learn something about him personally. This tragedy is as old as time.
The blood oath that were made in the temple ceremony that I went through alway ended with "or I will suffer my life to death".
If this is an attempt to answer Joseph's challenge in the comment directly preceding, you have not come close to doing that.
George Washington would have made the same oath as a Mason.
Thank you, thank you, thank you...more people need to understand the truth. You have my total respect and support... Again, THANK YOU!!!!
JB, thank you so much for your encouragement. It's been rough out here in blog land. This really helps. God Bless
I am an ex-Mormon as well. I've done all the things Tricia Erickson has done and even been an Elders Quorum President for several years. Now I'm Catholic. I am not afraid of having Mitt Romney as President. After seeing two pro-choice Southern Baptists completely screw up being President, I'd rather have a conservative Mormon than a liberal Protestant or Catholic. The Mormon Church will not be able to control a Mormon President - the President is checked by the Congress, the Supreme Court and the electorate. The fear of a Mormon President is ridiculous - look at his political positions, not his religion.
Excerpt from the book "Can Mitt Romney Serve Two Masters" Part II Political portion:
Let’s review Governor Romney’s record in Massachusetts:
• According to Reuters, “the $3 billion deficit projected by Romney and state legislators in January 2003 at the start of his Administration never rose that high because a surge in capital gains taxes more than halved the shortfall to $1.3 billion.”
• President of the Massachusetts Taxpayer Foundation, Michael Widmer told Reuters in 2008, “There’s never been under his [Romney’s] watch an economic turnaround to speak of…We added a few jobs over the last three years of his tenure, but very few. He also raised corporate taxes and the (deficit) gap turned out to be less than $3 billion.”
• Romney proposed or raised so many fees, he earned the nickname “Fee-Fee.” Almost no Massachusetts citizen was immune from the fees he imposed. “Romney and Democratic lawmakers ended up approving hundreds of millions in higher fees and fines, making it more expensive to use an ice skating rink, register a boat, take the bar exam, get a duplicate driver's license, file a court case, install underground storage tanks, sell cigarettes or alcohol, comply with air quality rules and transport hazardous waste,” according to the Associated Press. Sound similar to the Obama administration?
• Writing on the Official Blog of the National Taxpayers Union in 2008, Sam Batkins pointed out “Romney raised taxes or fees seven times in Mass, but only cut taxes three times…Overall, during Romney’s four years in office, taxes increased $175 million. This total is nothing compared to some tax-hikers like Jon Corzine (D-NJ), but Romney doesn’t have a great record as a tax cutter.”
• According to the National Taxpayers Union, under Romney, “spending in the Bay State rose 20.7 percent (from $22,848 billion to $27,588 billion).”
• During Romney’s term Massachusetts was in the bottom three of the nation for job creation, only above Michigan and post-Katrina Louisiana,
Here's what I don't understand about people like Tricia Erickson. How can you say that the Old Testament is a god-made book and the Book of Mormon is not? The only way that you know something that involves religion is true is the feeling in your heart that confirms it and the faith that you have that stems from it. She is not qualified to state these things as if they are "facts". You can only do that for yourself. That's fine if she does not believe in it, it just bothers me that she goes around speaking as if she is some sort of expert that should have credibility. There are some things that you have to determine the truth for yourself and I strongly believe that religion is one of them.
If we exclude Mormons and Muslims by saying "Their books were written by men not god" Then this should automatically exclude any beleiver in any religion since all their books were written by men and not god. Anyone who believes in fairy tales and an invisible magical boogie man in the sky should be automatically disqualified to run for president.
All religions promote themselves as the One True Faith.
As a non-religious person (well, I was Catholic for 8 years but gave it up for Lent), I'm inclined to not believe in any of them.
Keep in mind that we have little or no knowledge of the people who wrote or edited the Old and New Testaments. It certainly wasn't some deity.
...and Christianity isn't mind controlling? Burnt offerings, condoning slavery & speaking in tongues is normal? If the Christian god is so loving why did he create evil (Isiah 45:7)? All religions are B.S. and created to control the masses. Just the other day I was told it would be better to be a Christian "just in case". This guy said "what if you're wrong, then you're going to hell". Sounds like mind control to me. A president who doesn't wear religion on their sleeve is all I ask for. Preferably an athiest (because what does belief in god have to do with building infrastructure, taxation and national defense) but I'm flexible.
Being a Mormon myself, I'm constantly amazed by the insane hatred that Ex-Mormons seem to have for the Church. If we really are a "cult" that "brainwashes" people, we do an incredibly poor job of it. I'd say that your average Political Party does a much better job at "indoctrinating" their followers. That being said: Yeah, the Temple Ceremony was insane. It's since been changed, and there's no longer any blood-oaths. Detractors say that it's bad that we changed it, in the same breath that they say it's bad that we had it. Personally, I prefer a Church that's willing to recognize and change it's faults. Would you rather belong to a Church that doggedly defends it's failings? The Catholics tried that with their child abuse scandals, and it didn't work.
You're talking about the perfect church? Led by the prophet who spoke for God? Guided by "the most perfect book " ever created? Where did the errors come from? How did Joseph Smith get so far off track?
Oh wait, I remember. Joseph Smith, adroit as he was, only spoke for God sometimes. How did he state it? "Sometimes I as speak as a prophet, and other times I speak as a man".
You don't know your own history.
But I do now mine, and it is intimately tied to the Mormon church from its beginning. I am born and bred in Mormonism. I know more about your church than you will ever know, which is sad.
Joseph Smith was no prophet. The church is a lie, and statements like yours point to the unavoidable truth. Joseph Smith claimed to have restored the true church, and from that moment on the church has been altering it's beliefs to the extent they can without running afoul of overwhelming evidence of the re-write.
You defend a lie, as I once did.
Dear CNN: Shame on you for giving this bigot so much attention and free advertising. CNN, highlighting a con-artist bigot's latest book is NOT JOURNALISM. Most of your "pundits" have at least some experience or knowledge, but this lady has zero credentials, other than allegedly participating in the LDS Church for a while. There are tons of rabid anti-Catholics who used to be Catholic, anti-Baptists who used to be Baptists, etc. I'm a lifelong non-LDS Utahn, and take it from me, Mormons generally are good neighbors and good people, just like most religious folk. CNN, I expect more from you.
blah blah blah. You disagree with a president's religion? You believe that his beliefs will hinder him as a president? Then... don't vote for him. It's cool you think you're responsible for the salvation of this country, but shouldn't that be up to Christ? Who do you think YOU are?
*candidate's, not presidents.
This writer bashes Mitt Romney for his strange Mormon beliefs but then goes on to say how her God is good. I argue that Gods do not belong in politics at all. Your imaginary all-powerful being telling you what to think, feel, and how to act politically is a danger to me, the voter who does not believe in floating men in the sky.
I hope you enjoy the money you make off of your book, Tricia. I hope you enjoy your short lived fame you will get for attacking the faith of an entire group of people for your own fun and profit. This isn't about your bleeding heart "aching", it is purely about YOU, money, and your own desire to justify your otherwise unfounded bigotry.
You know how there is a little icon in the corner of all of these stories to "Recommend" or "Share" a page? Is it possible there can be another button for "Bigot!" I would gather that button would become pretty well worn on a piece like this.
Tricia, you need to grow up, plain and simple. You don't like Mormons, fine. You don't like Muslims, fine. Looks like you don't like your natural hair color either. Fine. I also appreciate the fact that not only are you a bigot, but you are willing come right out and say, in no uncertain terms, "I AM A BIGOT," because that's what you're doing right here. Hey, honesty's great, and it certainly does help us separate the wheat from the chaff. But there's no need for more hate-spewing, fear-mongering, know-it-alls such as yourself to save us from what evils lurk around the next corner. I think there's a tea-bag waiting on the counter of the Creationism Musium for you. Open wide, chomp down, and let the grown ups talk for a while. Shh...
The real question here is why a true believer in any religion would be put in charge of a government. The beliefs of the Mormons are no more ridculous or absurd then any of the others regularly espoused by other religious groups including Christians.
The very concept of faith and basing decisions on it rather than actual evidence is incompatible with rational decision making. Personally, the ability to make rational decisions is something I would hope for in anyone granted the power to drastically effect the world that all of us have to live in.
"See how the Christians love one another."
-Hitchens
I'm a Catholic. The same book could and has been written about Catholics. As stated above, there was a lot of talk about JFK being subservient to the Pope when he was running for president. I'm not taking a position on Romney's candidacy per se. Just noting that those who identify as "born again" or evangelical are, in my experience, some of the most intolerant people in the world.
Hey GBA, you do realize our founding fathers were for the most part freemasons and must have taken similar "oaths". To me it just sounds like meaningless ritual anyway. Did I mention how funny I find it that a group of decieved people are bashing another group of decieved people using the same book that decieved them both?
Why is CNN giving a forum to a religious bigot? I'm old enough to remember the same arguments being made against electing a Catholic.
CNN: I am disappointed and offended that this type of article has been given this kind of prominence on your site. Your forum and reputation in the news industry should be well above providing a sounding board for this kind of material.
SPECIFICALLY: This article's description of the endowment "penalties" is the most deeply offensive material to Mormons that can be published. To Mormons, the endowment is "sacred", which means the material presented in the temple belongs in a temple and should be kept separate from our mundane day to day lives and routines. Mormons consistently use and teach the word "sacred". Critics of the faith seeking to use rhetoric to insult or demean its value, use the word "secret" to stack their descriptions with ominous overtones. It is insulting and obnoxious. It is a cheap, manipulative tactic that does not belong in NEWS.
This kind of article can be written as a slur against ANY religion on Earth. It is as easy to insult Mormon ceremonies as disturbing, as it would be to describe the Catholic sacrament as cannibalism, or the Koran as a call for religious genocide.
As a Mormon, I am not and have not seen CNN apply the same standards of "tolerance" and "acceptance" to Mormonism that it has so consistenly applied to Islam. The double standard all too familiar when hearing from competing religious denominations. The double standard is not acceptable when hearing from a reputable news source.
You had to throw the whole "Masonic" thing in there, didn't you? No demands are placed on Masons that are "unachievable in order to merit the highest degree of glory". You may have been born into the Mormon religion but don't speak on subjects or organizations about which you have absolutely no clue.
I got as far as reading the following line...
"while the goals that all Mormons try to achieve are based on false beliefs and theology. One cannot reconcile a lie, no matter how hard they try to believe it."
...before laughing this off as one religious nutjob simply arguing that her religious delusion is more righteous than another person's religious delusion. End article there, 2 minutes for agnostic smart-ass comment, and on my way again...
Well Jesus better come back before we make ourselves immortal. We are making great advances in the anti aging field. People are living longer thanks to science and they will live forever once we figure out how to permently stop the aging process.
This bleacher must be feeling mightily bad about herself. What secrets are you carrying that would make you strike out so coldly and so unfoundedly? Too many notches in your abortion punch card?
The Mormons have a "thread of self-elevation"??? Dearest, look in the mirror; you redefine the term. Your hatchet job is easily refuted by the simplest of altar boys (with a little research)
so at age 9 she figured out that the church wasnt true because she found out that popcorn actually didnt pop on apricot trees and little streams couldnt talk?
I've experienced a lot of these things first-hand and I have no dog in the fight – am not Mormon or Christian. But having been burned by both over the course of time, I'll tell you that the Mormons scare the cr@ p out of me. I'd like to see an investigation into the church's finances and of their infiltration of the public education system, especially in the west. From my experience, they have both feet in the door and the result is a mess.
14 U.S. Presidents and 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence were Freemasons. Mormon temple ceremonies are nearly identical to Freemasonry of the early 1800's. Somehow these founding fathers managed to win our independence from England and establish our republic with democratic ideals. I doubt these same beliefs will do anything but bring us all back to our roots.
In America one is free to become a member of whatever loony CULT one would choose. However, when the bizarre belief system and racist practices of said CULT have been called into question widely by theologians, intellectuals, historians and other researchers across the political spectrum, it is fair to ask of a candidate for President who has a longstanding leadership position in said CULT to come clean about his affiliation, its teachings and why we should be sure that his “faith” and participation in said CULT will not impact his decisions as President of the United States of America. This is especially true where the majority of citizens hold positions contrary to the racist teachings and practice of said CULT. Nobody has stated that you cannot continue to be a member of the CULT OF MORMON. As a citizen who votes, however, I have a right to ask whether I want my President to be a CULT member, especially one which practices mind control techniques over its adherents. The 'Flipper' is no Gipper despite his Reagan like pose. Romney is more Satanesque than Reaganesque.
Mormons fervently believe in separation of church and state, if anyone has mormon scripture around their house read D&C section 134, especially verse 9
Amen! Truth spoken.
I came from an evangelical background and can attest to the amount of anti-Mormon diatribe that goes on within many evangelical churches. However, I've been surprised much of that contentious sentiment so far hasn't been directed at Romney. It may become another hurdle for him if nominated. Its sad that he will have to fight this battle predominantly with his own party.
I don't think that evangelical Christians like Michele Bachmann should be allowed to run for the office of president of the United States. Michele Bachmann's brother-in-law, Peter, was quoted as saying about his brother, "He is her Godly husband. The husband is to be the head of the wife, according to God". Michele Bachmann apparently agrees with this philosophy. In a 2006 speech to congregants of The Living Word Christian Center she stated that “The Lord says: Be submissive, wives. You are to be submissive to your husbands,”.
She is saying, in effect, that if elected president of the United States, she will run the country according to the will of her husband, a man who neither ran for or was elected to the presidency. Can you imagine the outcry from conservatives if Hillary Clinton had stated that if elected president she would do whatever Bill told her to do?
In my opinion, this philosophy alone should disqualify Michele Bachmann from running for the office of president of the United States.
Tricia-
Are you the Patricia Erickson from The Erickson Agency, Inc. of Virginia that the FTC found guilty of deceptive marketing? I noticed that you haven't responded to any of the many comments bringing that up. If you are, you obviously have a credibility issue and a problem with dishonesty. But even if not, you are in lala land.
Anyway, your comments are hilarious/ludicrous-
You claim that you are not a Mormon basher, then you go on to bash the Mormon religion.
You claim that Mitt did not do well as governor because MA was in bottom 3 states in job creation. I don't know if that's true, but success or failure is based on more than just one item.
Your claims as to why Mitt can't be US President are bigotry to the max.
You claim you kept waiting for someone else to write the book, but they didn't. Have you ever thought that it may be because everyone else at least has a little decency and respect for others and their beliefs, even if they don't agree?
You refer to false beliefs of Mormons (how do you know they're false?) and proven lies (where's the proof?).
Please tell us how what you believe is the absolute truth, and how everyone else is wrong. Have you been to the other side, and now you're back with all the answers? Where is the proof that your beliefs are true? What authority do you have to tell us what is right or wrong?
News flash: Pot calls kettle black. All of this would be hysterically funny if these people weren't in power.
Mormon beliefs are crazy, but "our" burning bushes, millions of animals in a smallish boat, man eaten by large fish and lives, etc. etc. etc. are all perfectly logical.
A symbolic throat-slashing in a ritual is out of line, but eating the actual flesh and drinking the actual blood of a dead man is tasty.
Ruling your own planet is insane, but raising zombies from the dead and going to a place somewhere outside the space/time continuum after death is normal.
I too believe no Mormon should hold office. But I think NO religious nut should hold office. the author frets that Mormons would act on their beliefs. The mainstream Christians do the same thing – like denying an atheist or anyone who disagrees with them a place at the leadership table. Pure hypocrisy.
I would no more vote for a senior Mormon Church official for President than I would vote for a Catholic bishop or cardinal for that position
Here is my take.
If a serious presidential candidate believes he had been abducted by aliens, but it was not common knowledge, I would want people to know about it. It might make a difference in the way they feel about that persons ability to lead. I am sure that people everywhere who truly have been abducted by aliens would be offended by this.
If a serious presidential candidate believes mormon doctrine, I would want people to know about it. I would also want people to know what that doctrine is. Then people can make their own decision.
It would have been interesting if the author had never said a thing about whether he is fit to be president or not. She could have just laid out the facts and let people make their own decision.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
And it's the foundation of a great business model. There's a guy in Rome who runs an amusement park that's been in business for a couple thousand years and now has little branches all over the world! The place had a monopoly until the 1500's, and now everybody's trying to get a piece of the action. The biggest Mormon parks are really great! Some of them remind me of OZ!!
That's just Brilliant ! Now go do your homework to ascertain the beliefs of all OTHER religions: Wanna go to heaven and have 70 virgins? Want to blow yourself up so you get special preference in heaven? How about the religion that thinks the earth is held up by elephants? or maybe you prefera blue man with 8 arms? After studying all the religions of the world, maybe you will have some 'insight' and make an educated comment based on facts.
I suppose you were addressing Autodidactyl, but I'll try to illuminate.
Every primitive society has 2 central beliefs: They live at the center of the world, and they have a unique relationship with their God or Gods. Death comes upon them in many forms: disease, starvation, drought, conflict. Try as they might, they find that they are unable to control the most important aspects of their lives. This desperate desire for control leads them to invent beings powerful enough to protect them from harm. So human attempts to control events are redirected into attempts to persuade their Gods to protect them. Because the basis of these beliefs is so hollow, humans have, over time, formulated absurdly intricate, complex, and convoluted systems to describe our relationships with our Gods. The intensity of these efforts isn't due to devotion. It's because most of us, on some level, recognize their absurdity. So we cluster in like-minded groups, write volume after volume of interpretation, proselytize, collect funds, and build glorious temples and churches primarily in an attempt to maintain a state of denial.
So why choose one over another? As you've pointed out schnapps, they're all pretty ridiculous.
"human attempts to control events are redirected into attempts to persuade their Gods to protect them"
It was humans that invented gods... not the other way around. Simply an attempt by primitive humans to explain events occurring in nature and their place in the universe.
The most important idea in politics is to choose the best people, and the best people is a moral people, evangelican, catholical, or even atean, the best people is the best people, you, the american people must judge in relation of facts, no in the case of mormon candidates, in wrong ideas.
This article almost makes me want to be a Republican again so I can cast a vote for Mr. Romney in my state's primary. As an atheist, his religion isn't anymore ridiculous or troubling than any other.
Ask a Mormon about Kolob. Ask why they don't have a Mormon Space program.
Ms. Erickson has the right to say and publish whatever she wants, but she seems to miss the larger point. Any concerns or issues she raised about Romney or any Mormon could be equally used against any candidate who professes a commitment to any religious faith. The points she raised were previously used against Kennedy, and could be just as easily used against a Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Christian, or ??? candidate. The only possible conclusion one can draw is that nobody of any faith can serve as our President--only atheists need apply. I don't expect that the logic of this is lost on any reasonable reader, and I cannot imagine how Ms. Erickson thinks such arguments do any good for our nation.
You said it quite well. Only Atheists Need Apply. All believers of supernatural sky fairies are delusional and should not hold public office.
Yeah except that delusional believers of supernatural sky fairies are also the ones voting.
This woman makes no sense. As someone who grew up in the Mormon church, but who had a father who truly let me decide on my own whether or not I wanted to join (and eventually, I chose not to), I can state that she has blown so many things out of proportion. Yes, the Mormon beliefs are a bit silly. Yes, the rituals are bizarre. But they are truly no different than ANY OTHER RELIGION. And believe me, I investigated a LOT as a young woman.
This woman is right on! I cannot wait to read this book, although I already know and agree with most of it. You go girl!
So belief in the ability to attain Godship or rule over one's own planet dominion is "silly," but a talking burning bush, a talking lying snake in a special fruit tree, the fitting of millions of animals on a large wooden boat as the Earth is covered in water, then later....the magical appearance of thousands of fish in fishnets, walking on water, raising dead people to life, magically turning water into wine....etc., etc. ....all that is okay and rationale and makes perfect sense with the world we actually observe? Something is very inconsistent here.......
Also....if God is not malicious, and if God is perfectly capable of anything, then WHY do all human babies HAVE to be born with sin? That is clearly a case of "punishing the innocent for the wrongdoings of a few" (though in this case, it was a couple). Now that is silly!
Go Jeff! That's what I'm trying to say.
"I cannot explain to you in a few words here just how completely violent, mind controlling and alarming these ceremonies are."
I am sorry, but I have been married in the Mormon Temple. Tricia, you must be either blind or stupid to think that the ceremonies in the Mormon Temple are "violent, mind controlling and alarming". I pity your ignorance.
The author is right about one thing – all believers submit to a supposed supernatural authority and the dictates of the earthly representatives of that authority. So, they will never obay oaths of office or loyalty to country. Her mistake is confining it to Mormons. Every religion has this problem. Every religion has believers that will say with a straight face that some fairy tale made up by insane desert nomads (or an insane American pioneer) really happened and was 'an act of god'. They are all delusional, and none of them should allowed to hold public office of any kind.
I am so with you on that, Howie. I write novels. I don't think they're real. If I did, someone would offer me pretty colored pills.
How is believing you're going to father spirit babies different than believing the sky wizard sacrificed his son? Seriously... pot calling the kettle black.
Shame, shame on you Erikson. All religions have some pretty nutty stories that one is required to just accept. Personally I think that Jesus coming back from the dead, and having God as a biological father are pretty far-fetched ideas. You easily believe that Mary was impregnated by God, but the stories of Zeus and Hercules and other Gods are quickly dismissed as fantasy, right? Sorry but I don't see a big difference between that and the idea that Joe Smith saw God in a forest and had a nice chat about churches, or people having secret meetings where they promise to not pi$$ off God or suffer something horrible. So what's the plan here? First we get to eliminate people of certain religions for office, next we can make sure we only elect white catholic [or if we HAVE to, Jewish] people? Hail tricia!
The net result of anti-Mormon diatribes like this is often that people's curiosity is piqued. Imagine their surprise when they find out that Mormons don't have horns, they don't swear blood oaths in secret rituals, they don't have fifteen wives or teach womens' subservience to men, or anything like that.
I would encourage everyone who wants to know more about the Mormon faith to read the Book of Mormon itself–if you are expecting anything sinister or bizarre, you will be pleasantly surprised. The plain and precious truths therein bring men and women closer to God. Of course, you can also talk to your LDS friends and neighbors regarding their faith. I apologize in advance if they are a little overeager once you broach the subject, but know that they are completely sincere!
Agreed...mormons should not be presidents... since the thing they are best at is planting their nose deep into other peoples posteriors and planting big wet kisses. The same thing holds true for evangelicals... and tea party members too though.
ROFL
My, my Tricia says Mormons are disrespectful of Jews. I am a Jew and active LDS. Joseph Smith sent Orson Hyde an LDS Apostle to the Holy Land in 1841 to dedicate that land to the return of the Jews. Hyde was a Jew.
excerpt from "Can Mitt Romney Serve Two Masters" regarding Jews: A Total Disdain for Jews
Deeper in this vein of prejudice, we come to the Jewish Nation; in the following passage Mormon prophet, Brigham Young describes his view of the Jews:
"I would rather undertake to convert five thousand Lamanites [Native Americans], than to convert one of those poor miserable creatures [Jews] whose fathers killed the savior.... Yes, I would rather undertake to CONVERT THE DEVIL HIMSELF, if it were possible. ...I would say, leave them, and come home, the lord does not require you to stay there, for they must suffer and be damned. ...[l]eave them to live and die in their sins and ignorance. ...[t]hey take pleasure in their wickedness...." (17) (Emphasis added)
Jews are clearly held in low regard by one of the former Prophets and Seers of the Mormon Church. Brigham Young said that his word was to be upheld as scripture; therefore we can see the dangers in the words of a man who clearly had a heart filled with hate. Yet, in 1st John Chapter 4, verses 20-21, the Bible plainly states that we cannot love God if we hate others;
If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?
And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. (NKJV) [Emphasis added]
As a a young mormon right now I feel that some of the practices within the church unusual, however I have attained the maturity to respect it. The defamation of the church that you have crafted into your posts relate to more than just the mormon church. Other religions have distinct practices like the mormon church yet you only criticize the mormons?! Your narrow prospect of thought for understanding and personal beliefs is rather ridiculous. Your writings also refer to the many other religions out there, not just the saints. And costly research?! Most of the mormon beliefs/rituals are available online, or was it referring to the time you wasted as a mormon and actually experiencing it all?! I know of others who have left the church, although not all for the same reason, have had the respect not to lash out at the religion and the people in it for what they believe is right, what they see it as with the backing of others who probably dont even know the fundamentals of the church. I dont mind the opinions but your 'costly research' has resulted into a book of your own presonal rantings.
The truth is all religion is false, it is simply a man-made tool to control the hearts and minds of the masses. There is no God, no "creator" in the sky, just as much as there is no Zeus or Apollo. It will be a great day when it is not a prerequisite for a politician to be dillusional and believe in make believe and faery tales to be considered worthy of office. The Mormon church is a shining example of how very gullible and ignorant people can be, but I believe anyone that believes in make believe people in the sky is unfit for public office in the U.S. What good is separation between church and state if there is no separation between church and statesman?
CNN's "interview" with Erickson reads like a thinly veiled smear-piece against Romney's presidential campaign. Is CNN attempting to inject religion into a presidential race? In other words, CNN appears to be attempting to influence the presidential campaign by bringing up and then attacking (via the "interview" posted) Romney's membership in the LDS (Mormon) church.
Tricia, maybe you should slit your throat.
Erickson writes...
> I can’t stress enough to you how truly alarming these ceremonies that
> Mitt and Ann repeatedly went through, and continue to go to and participate in, are.
> The truth about this and more is truly stranger than fiction.
Why doesn't Erickson simply write what it is about these ceremonies that she finds so alarming and strange, and let the reader decide whether participation in the ceremonies should make one ineligible for presidency? It's odd that Erickson should make the accusation that the ceremonies are alarming and strange, without providing the slightest bit of detail or evidence to back up her attack. What she writes above is purely mud-slinging, not a reasoned argument.
The great majority of our country are affiliated with religious groups. For the most part, we do so for the sake of community, not because we really believe the doctrines. Erickson herself makes clear that she herself believes that some dusty old book was written by God himself... and she believes this based purely on blind faith and brain-washing. Whatever rituals Mormons engage in, how could they possibly be any more bizarre than Erickson's belief that God writes books??
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
How in the world is Mormonism's ceremonies and beliefs ANY crazier than those of Christianity or any leading religion???
Nobody who has been INDOCTRINATED in ANYTHING should ever be elected. But, of course, no other religions would eeever indoctrinate someone!
I wonder how many mormons have been found dying of a slit throat, If the tempole ceremony, as you quote, has such a part in in, and I would venture to say that there must be many mormons and ex-mormons who have made this 'covenant' and not lived up to it, news bulletins should be full of news stories about non compliant mormons being attacked with knives to the throat. Is there ANY reports of this EVER happening – if not, what is your point of even metioning it other than the sensationalise your bigotted argument. I am reminded of an old saying that says 'someone who attacks another's belief is either in fear of the truth of that belief or very unsure of the truth of their own.' Which is it for you?
Why dwell on the points you did? As a Mormon myself, I think you miss how Mormons believe in serving in government while living off their own money and not accepting partronage from anyone, or even a paycheck.
In the Old Testament, there were oaths to put people to death if they did any of list of sins. Although people were not necessarily put to death, it was meant as a figuritive statement about the weight of their sins. Just like the old "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" phrase that is often misquoted to justify revenge, when it only meant what "should" be done to someone who intentionally hurts a pregnant woman, a statement about the severity of that particular sin. Things figurative are often taken literal by people who read for the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law.
The single most consistent characteristic of religious believers is how certain they are that their religion is right and the others are wrong. According to Erickson, Mormons believe they get to heaven by personally doing good acts, while Erickson believes you are "saved" by an apparently random act of god (since you can't earn it). Which is crazier, or more conducive to leading a constructive life?
Ever since Mitt Romney started attracting national attention a few years ago, I was amazed that Americans would really take this guy seriously. Having grown up and lived in the Western US where Mormonism is much more prominent than in other parts of the country, let me personally attest to the cult-like behaviors of this religion. I can barely go a month without missionaries knocking on my door and through conversations with them, as well as Mormon friends and neighbors, I am convinced they act like brainwashed semi-robots. I am sorry for being politically/culturally insensitive, but it is a very weird, unbalanced, male-dominated, creepy religion. Please, Republicans, use some common sense and get rid of this guy!
I do not practice any religion, nut DO NOT CHASTISE those who do regardless of their mind set. I served our Country Defending the right to the freedom of choice. As to what church is good or bad – each has their own closet.. Let your feet do the voting when talking religion (works for some and not others). Our government is messed up after many years of less than stellar leadership. I do not finger any single party or politician. The politicians I hold exempt are the Freshmen as they haven't been converted by the old guard. The old guard has a smorgasbord of religions – it is not the religion that has created the problem it the the greed. So to solve the problem I will exercise my freedom to VOTE THE OLD GUARD OUT!!! That is a solution we all can do!!!
I love how anti-Mormons pass their own, warped view of Mormon beliefs off as legitimate Mormon beliefs. Mormons don't believe that you can earn you way into heaven through works. Only Christ's grace can save us, no matter what we do. Mormons take Christ seriously, however, when He tells us that we need to keep His commandments. Keeping the commandments won't save you. But keeping the commandments will lead you to a more Godly life, a life more in tune with the Holy Spirit, and to a life more full of joy. If salvation were truly as easy as confessing Christ's name, why would Jesus go the trouble of propounding commandments at all?
I'm an ex-Mormon who had similar mission responsibilities to Romney. I didn't leave the Mormon church because of the eccentric ceremonies (come-on... they're obviously symbolic), but because religion seems to bring out the worst in people. Not all people–but certainly people like Tricia. Some people are unable to build up their own convictions–they only know how to tear down others. This article screams to me clearly 'Why Tricia Erickson should never be elected President' more than it does anything to sway me for or against Romney.
We need more people who can be tolerant of other people and other beliefs–and whose own personal vendetta wont severely interfere with objectivity. Clearly this is more of a problem for Tricia than Romney.
Anyone with more than passing familiarity with Mormonism, anyone who has lived around it and had close friends involved in it, knows that what Tricia, Ed Decker, and others have published is spot on.
Mormon issue aside, what was with the CNN reporter–biased, angry or what. He seemed to have some issue getting in the way.
Tricia,
Ever hear of the pot calling the kettle balck? I don't think a Mormon would be a good candidate for Presidency either because of what they believe and I see evangelicals or any other religion the same way. You all believe in unsubstanciated nonsence and let that horrid book called the bible or a version of it guide your decisions. That being said, i still agree with our founding fathers that a candidate should have no religious test, meaning you cannot bar someone from running. Voters will decide themselves who is fit for office, its just sad that some still let religion be a factor at all.
Dear CNN: Rev. Jeffress is completely right on all fronts, and yes, Mormonism is a cult! I should know, I’m a former Mormon Bishop’s daughter.
This is not a time for political correctness. This is a time for the truth.
Mitt Romney truly, unequivicaly believes he will become a literal God in the next life and will be given his own kingdom/planet. On this planet, he will call his wife, Ann, in to by her secret name given to him in the secret Mormon Temple ceremonies, to join him in creating spirit babies to populate their planet, as God and his wife did on their own planet. These spirit babies will pop down in to our earthly baby’s bodies to start their own progression to godhood.
I think we can all agree that it is important that the leader of the free world has the ability to discern fact from fiction. Otherwise, if he has lived a life of deception, we can conclude that he will continue to be deceived and that his judgment may be distorted. Because the wisdom, judgment and discernment of our President may be crucial to our survival, would it not be prudent to examine his fundamental foundation and beliefs? And if his beliefs are distorted, why would it not be critical to our existence to protect our country from being placed in the hands of such a person?
Tricia Erickson & Richard Bushman well I pity your pride and your choice to leave The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, what you once knew was true and has in the words of the Saviour "Dont cast your pearls before the swine lest they turn around and rend you" become the case with you both. You have i think in a way become like Judas to not just betray the Church but you have betrayed yourself and your Creator Heavenly Father and His only Begotten Son Jesus Christ. You should be grateful for what more & more people are living witness of and ever growing number of people who are embracing the restored gospel of Jesus Christ through a simple yet real testimony by the power of the Holy Spirit come to know of the truthfullness of the true gospel and church. Well finally if you cannot contain the truth even after it has set you free then I dont what to say in your case. Better still let God judge you for your actions & words!! God Bless..
"Tricia Erickson & Richard Bushman well I pity your pride and your choice to leave The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"
Dear Neil,
Before you go out "trashing" Richard Bushman, I just want to let you know that brother Bushman is still in the church, and he is still a patriarch. He is an honorable man and has helped through the years many people to stay in the church, after they find out some of the false doctrines and policies the church has purposely hidden from its history, such as Blacks in the Priesthood, Polygamy, Adam-God doctrine, and Blood Atonement, just to name a few. And for the thousands of members that have encountered these horrible moments in Mormon history, such as I have, they still remain alive today because of the fear to address them by our current leaders. Richard Bushman through his honesty and integrity when speaking the "truth" about our history, becomes for many, a life saver.
Be careful when casting stones on others, they may come back to you in the last day!
Besides, as a Mormon just like you, I see your tone on your comments "nothing Chrsit-like", but rather arrogant and self centered just as the indoctrinated Pharisees were, in the days of Jesus. You feed your nasty comments to Mormon haters, showing how some of us can in many instances, display extreme examples of what Mormons should not be. Therefore, I respectfully, disagree with your black and white way of seeing things, while saying, Thanks G-D, not all Mormons think like you!
Best Wishes!
While living in Mass. during Mitt Romney's governorship, I did not see or felt that he was serving two masters, but he was serving me in most of his decisions, as an American and a citizen of the state he was responsible for. Judge him for his policies, actions as a governor and as an administrator, but not for this "ridiculous" religious phobia being created by so many people that are uncomfortable with religious freedom. Romney got the smarts to do an outstanding job as The President of a nation that is in desperate need for direction. The Obama hope has faded to plain smoke and broken promises! Mitt has my vote if he becomes the nominee, regardless of his religion. In the last election I voted for Obama not because I wanted a black man in the White House, but because I thought he was the best candidate, regardless if he had Muslim ancestry (like many people reported or believed) or not. I did not care about that! And I will do the same if Romney proves to me by election day, he is still the best candidate for the job, regardless of what religion he believes or supports. Unfortunately, many Americans still have their priorities twisted, because we need a president and not a preacher to guide us in this challenging and difficult future, and in my humble opinion, he is the man more capable of doing a better job than any other candidate I have seen so far.
So, America, get over this religious bias, for our own good as a nation and embrace hope by choosing the best, regardless of His/ Her religious affiliation!
Remember J.F.K., the first Catholic president?
Tricia Erickson and the Mormons are like fighting for the class dunce cap. They both go to show that anyone who can believe the Bible is the word of a god can believe anything.
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Does the Mormon Temple mandate that Mitt "I like to fire people" Romney pay to it 10% of the loot he extracted from the businesses targeted by Romney/Bain Capital when he siphoned off loan proceeds intended to grow the business and to meet payroll, when he leveraged the company into bankruptcy and raided the employees' pension fund before firing them and putting them on the dole at taxpayer expense?
WITH A MORMON AS NOMINEE, THE REPUBLICANS DON'T HAVE A PRAYER!
comments really should constantly be made when you read some thing as great as this, thanks a million
Lets just say that your posts mke me wish to comment, some thing which i normally by no means do.
Wonderful post and it really is definitly worth a comment from me. You might have earned a loyal fan.
Tricia,
I am not attached to any religion whatsoever, but I would never go on a gratuitous attack on anyone's beliefs the way you did to Mormons! Wanna know why? I have shame, something you appear to have dumped in the garbage can! Is the opposition paying you to go out there making an ass of yourself. You are an un-classy, stupid woman. SHAME ON YOU!