Eliot Spitzer and CNN Sr. Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin look at discrepancies by possible GOP pres. candidate Donald Trump in a deposition for a libel case.
UPDATE – 4-22-11 – Here is the transcript of Eliot's conversation with Jeffrey Toobin:
ELIOT SPITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Welcome to the program. I'm Eliot Spitzer.
Our top story, a man who these days needs no introduction. Donald Trump. Tonight, we're looking into his finances and how he has presented the facts about his net worth. And we're doing it with Donald's help. We got our hands on sworn testimony he gave in a deposition at the end of 2007.
According to some polls, Trump is the Republican front runner for the presidential nomination.
Tonight, there's one thing you need to know about candidate Trump. His financial statements often appear quite different from an objective view of the facts. In 2007, Trump sued Tim O'Brien, author of the book, "Trump Nation: The Art of Being the Donald." That's where this deposition came from. And we've been going over the case pretty carefully.
CNN's legal expert Jeffrey Toobin joins me now. He's been studying it, too.
Jeff, it's tough to know where to start. But let's look at the condominium tower Trump built in Las Vegas. Back in 2006, Trump appeared on "LARRY KING LIVE" on CNN and he talked about how successful he was. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, ENTREPRENEUR: Its location, it's the city, if it's a great city, if it's a city with certain potential, Philadelphia is really on the upswing. I like the city a lot. So we decided to do that job. Miami, we're doing a lot of jobs in Miami. We're doing quite a few jobs in Miami.
Las Vegas, I'm doing a job with a wonderful partner that is going to be spectacular. It's totally sold out. It's 1283 units, totally sold out, a great location. It's a condominium. And it's been a really amazing success.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
SPITZER: Trump made the same claim to the "Wall Street Journal" and to CNBC. Beautiful building, 100 percent sold. OK. Now for the reality. According to sales data submitted by Trump's own accountants, only 903 units were actually sold in Trump Hotel Las Vegas, leaving almost 1/4 of the units unspoken for. Donald Trump claimed he actually wanted to keep the rest as his own investment, but the lawyers' response, and I quote, "100 percent sold, that was a lie, Mr. Trump, wasn't it?"
So, Jeff, what do you make of this discrepancy? He said over and over again, 100 percent sold, and yet it wasn't.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, and his explanation is so bizarre. Because he says, well, those other 300 and change, almost 400 units, well, I wasn't actively trying to sell them. So it's like they were sold. You know, it's not a legal problem. But if he becomes a serious candidate for president, that kind of misstatement as they say, of politicians could be a big problem.
SPITZER: Here's what I would say, if this was one in isolation, OK. But if it is emblematic of a course of conduct, a pattern of - in practice, then it becomes a problem and that's why - let's take a look at another example.
Let's go back to the "LARRY KING" interview when Trump explained the golf development he was building he would have, he claimed, 75 mansions. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The fact is that I'm doing something that I'm very excited about. It's Trump International. It's a golf course along the ocean and palace where it's 2 1/2 miles along the ocean. And it's just opened and it's getting reviews that it's a better golf course than even the Great Pebble Beach, which of course I love.
But I have 2 1/2 miles on the ocean which is more than any other course. Every hole either is on the ocean or faces the ocean, and it's great. And in addition to that, I'm building 75 great mansions over the top of the golf course. So it's a very exciting project.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
SPITZER: Earlier today, we called the sales office at the Trump National Golf Club Los Angeles. How many of those 75 mansions have been built? Five years later, six. And no more are under construction. And how many have been sold? Three.
But here's the thing, in 2003, Trump valued the property at $30 million. In 2005, he valued it at $360 million. Why? Because of the 75 mansions, but only six of them are there.
So that discrepancy in valuation, Jeff, that's a big number, and arguably a big problem.
TOOBIN: Well, this is the issue about that one. It's not false statements. It's that he's been accused of puffing up his net worth. And we know he's a very rich man. And frankly, I don't know what difference it makes whether he has $1 billion or $4 billion.
But the issue is, is he telling the truth about how much money he actually has and this certainly seems like a problematic valuation.
SPITZER: Precisely. Look, the whole predicate to his campaign. And these were his words the other day when he said, I'm bigger, richer - I think the words were, many, many, many, many times richer than Mitt Romney, whatever the phrasing was.
If, in fact, that isn't the case or it is as you say puffing and there are real discrepancies between the numbers he's putting on projects and the actuality, then his own stated rationale for his candidacy begins to crumble. And that I think these 75 mansions is not six, only three are sold, and values it at $360 million, that's a lot of money for three houses.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Even at higher - in inflated real estate.
SPITZER: That's right. All right.
TOOBIN: Those are expensive houses.
SPITZER: One more. It tells a familiar story. Here's Trump talking about a speech that he claimed he was paid $1 million for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST, LARRY KING LIVE: I know you have some books out.
TRUMP: Right.
KING: On marketing and real estate, I saw those. You have tapes. You're everywhere. And what is this thing with the Learning Annex?
TRUMP: Well, the Learning Annex –
KING: This ad at "L.A. Times."
TRUMP: The Learning - I didn't put that in, but the Learning Annex is a great institution. And they have seminars. And as an example this coming Sunday we have a seminar in San Francisco, 61,500 people.
KING: And you do it like a lecture?
TRUMP: I do it like a lecture. And frankly, they pay me a lot of money but I do it because I love doing it. I really enjoy doing it. It's usually on a Sunday night. So I'll leave either New York City or Palm Beach. I'll fly out to wherever the destination is and we'll have crowds that are unbelievable.
KING: True I read that in New York you got $1 million? TRUMP: A speech? Yes.
KING: For the Learning Annex.
TRUMP: Yes. That's true. It's actually more than that.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
SPITZER: Well, no, actually, it wasn't $1 million, it was $400,000. Look, still not a bad paycheck, but not a million bucks the way he had just said it was.
Jeff, again, discrepancies between reality and what he's selling as the reality.
TOOBIN: Well, in fairness, we should point out what his explanation was. When he's confronted about that in his deposition –
SPITZER: Right.
TOOBIN: He says well, I only got $400,000, but they spent $600,000 promoting the lecture. So all those ads with my face on it, that's like I was getting paid that amount of money. But you know –
SPITZER: You're saying that without laughing.
TOOBIN: Well, I mean it seems like a ridiculous explanation.
SPITZER: It's like Derek Jeter saying, look, I'm paid $10 million to play shortstop, but the Yankees spend $30 million advertising the games, and so I'm being paid $40 million.
TOOBIN: It doesn't make any sense.
SPITZER: It's not reality.
TOOBIN: And you know –
SPITZER: He didn't pay taxes on it.
TOOBIN: We are trying to, you know, put forth these explanations. Think about how these could be used in political ads. Where they're not interested in fairness.
SPITZER: Right.
TOOBIN: I mean they could beat him over the head with this. Now will Mitt Romney do it? Will Tim Pawlenty do it? Will Barack Obama do it? They might because there is a lot of material here to be exploited.
SPITZER: Look, and as you just said, we want everybody out there to know what he said in response to this.
And as Jeff pointed out, he claimed the $600,000 that they spent advertising it was what he was referring to. I don't buy it. But you know he wanted the notion he's being paid a million bucks to give a speech. I understand why he wanted people to think that, it simply wasn't true.
Look, there were literally dozens of contradictions throughout his deposition. Discrepancies between what Donald Trump says and the facts as presented.
Listen to this exchange in the depositions. The lawyer asks him, have you ever lied in public statements about your properties? Trump says he tries to be truthful, but then he adds this, "I'm no different from a politician running for office. You don't want to say negative things."
Then the lawyer asks him, have you ever exaggerated in statements about your properties? His response, "I think everyone does."
You know what? That's not true.
Then there were his 2004 financial statements. He used it to try and get loans from North Fork Bank and Deutsche Bank. He said - Trump said he was worth $3.5 billion. Norfolk did the math and said, no, only $1.2 billion. Still not bad, but it's not $3.5. Deutsche Bank said no, only $788 million.
The lawyers in this deposition accused him of lying about his worth. All we can tell you is this, nothing quite added up.
All right, Jeff, stay right there. We're going to talk about this for a moment or two. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SPITZER: I'm back with CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
So, Jeff, you know, let me set the stage for this. This isn't just some effort to bash on somebody who has been, as I've said on this program, very successful. I have a lot of respect for much of what he has done. But he set up his entire presidential campaign and the argument for it as some sort of judgment on his qualities and skills as a businessman.
And when you do that, you kind of cry out for people to take a hard look at the authenticity of that record and the credibility of every number that you put in front of them.
TOOBIN: And it's not just numbers, it's your personality. It's your - it's your reputation. It's your history of candor or lack thereof.
I mean look at it. When Bill Clinton ran for president, all of us in the news media spent a great deal of time looking at whether he dodged the draft in Vietnam and what he wrote to the draft board in Arkansas. Barack Obama and his minister in Chicago.
These are the relevant issues of background. This is sworn testimony that this man gave in a libel suit where he said he was libel, which by the way a case that was thrown out.
SPITZER: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: Thrown out and the author was upheld. But you know this is - this is perfectly fair game. And if you want to run for president, this is kind of a scrutiny you should - you deserve.
SPITZER: Here's the bizarre thing. Donald Trump's career has been one of brilliant marketing. Marketing in his case that has a great deal of bravado built into it. His entire life story is one of I am bigger than everybody else. I am better than everybody else. And of course, half of that the public understands and I think appreciates is sort of - if not smoke and mirrors, a story of exaggeration.
On the other hand, it's unfair of him to then turn around and say, look, everybody does this, which isn't simply the case, certainly when it comes to financials and it also is not the case despite the public perception when it comes to politics. The sort of aggrandizement - self-aggrandizement he's participating here is not accepted and the media won't let him get away with it.
TOOBIN: Especially when you talk about how he's run his campaign so far, if it is even a campaign.
SPITZER: Right.
TOOBIN: He has expressed contempt for Mitt Romney, as you quoted earlier. I'm much richer than he is. Now, I have a question, do voters go into the voting booth and say I'm going to vote for the richest candidate? I mean I don't know if they do or not.
SPITZER: I can see - I can see the John - JP Getty was the president of the United States, or Nelson Rockefeller never got there, and Bill Gates isn't there yet. So –
TOOBIN: No, but once you say that, you raise the question of, well, how rich are you? How many buildings do you own? These turn out to be very complicated questions. At another point in that deposition, which we all went over today, he says, well, I own some buildings and I license my name to some buildings if it's all sort of the same thing.
Well, actually, you know, it's not sort of the same thing.
SPITZER: Right. Right.
TOOBIN: And, you know, these are the kind of things –
SPITZER: There is loosey-goosey language all over these depositions that I think will come back to haunt him if he is, in fact, a candidate. There's another quality or element to his campaign that deserves attention. He has made the birther issue the - the center piece up to now of what is his appeal to the Republican Party. And if he's going around the country saying there isn't sufficient proof that the president was born in the United States, something that I think most of us have rejected out of hand as a credible argument, the one that Donald Trump is making, then I think he is almost begging for people to turn that same level of scrutiny back on him.
TOOBIN: Well, I would have a less kind evaluation of that. I mean, this is based on a lie. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Any rational person thinks that. The only people who don't think that are bigots and crazy people, and I don't think Donald Trump is either bigoted or crazy.
I think he's very cynical in using this to motivate a part of the Republican Party that hates Barack Obama beyond any level of rationality. And putting aside everything else, it's an absolute disgrace that he's raising this.
SPITZER: Can I turn completely turn the tables on you, though?
TOOBIN: Certainly.
SPITZER: One thing just occurred to me, there would be one absolutely wonderful thing if all of these skills that Donald Trump has, he brought them into the Oval Office in the White House, in the presidency. If - with his accountant, with his way of valuing property and looking at books, there'd be no federal deficit.
He would just say the White House is worth $1 trillion, the Congress is worth - how much ever we need, you know deficit is gone, lower taxes, everything would be good.
TOOBIN: Days of –
SPITZER: I like his accounting –
TOOBIN: Days of winding roads.
SPITZER: Days of winding roads. All right, Jeffrey Toobin, as always, thank you for spending the time going through these massive depositions today. We picked out only a couple, whole lot more that we could've chosen to zero in on.
© 2011 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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first off, the man is physically repulsive to look at...hes got the scrunched up little mouth, those beedy little eyes, he has a horrible grimace, and his face is a different color than his eye brow area-yuuckk. So we know that hes a compulsive liar. I actually at one point amused the idea of attending one of his real estate seminars–come to find out that he wasn't even going to be there–some other speaker...and when I heard about his casinos going into bankruptcy...I said this guy is a joke, a total New York A**Hole. Casinos are set up not to fail...yet his went to bankruptcy so many times-gimme a break. Finally, I've seen him speak a few times, he seems to not care about people who aren't like him..Like he has a disdain for regular folks. He's not presidential material in my opinion.
obama is not "presidential" material – either.
Well said, thetruth!
Plus, I don't think DC is big enough for the man's ego! If he wins, I can just hear him kvetching about how moving to the White House is "down-sizing" to him. The braggart has an "ick factor" that is through the roof!
He can't be worth much if he cannot afford a decent rug for his empty canium. Weird, scary little man
Trump is a deadbeat, bottom feeder. MILLIONS of average Americans work everyday – for a fraction of less than one percent of what he makes – and still manages to be financially responsible and pay our debts. Yet, this – so called – ultra billionaire cannot pay his debts. It is about time he got the scrutiny he deserves because he is NOT the financial wizard he wants people to believe he is. Ironically, his love of himself is the reason he is now facing so much he negative attention. Three bankruptcies and he wants us to believe he is successful business man? A financial genius? Please. He is nothing if not a deadbeat bottom feeder.
How many times has this "financial genius" filed for bankrupycy? 2 or 3 times?
He cannot be much of a financial wiz if he lost money running a casino where the odds are set to let the house win!!
NOTHING! He is an empty, insecure suit. Now we know that the "emperor" has no clothes.
Trump is so leveraged that if he had to liquidate all his assets, he would be broke. He uses his speaking engagement income and the income from his reality show to meet his monthly liabilities. He is in debt up to his eyeballs to organized crime in NY and that is why he will not run for President. He could never turn in a financial statement. He has declared bankruptcy 4 times, can you imagine what he would do with the US Treasury. Trump is just using the media to run up his speaker fees and hype his show!
Maybe with a resume like his,(ie dealing with financial crisises), he would be able to do something about our country's financial issues, that is besides spend more...
Jamnew, those are lies, lies, lies.
CNN is a liberal corrupt news media. They have to slant and lie to support their position.
@mike L..... And which news outlet do you feel is the pinnacle of straight reporting?
Why Fox of course. They're not biased...............RIGHT! ! ! !
Donald Trump wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on the butt. The man has spent his life praising himself. He is one of the biggest con artist this country has ever seen. Why doesn't anyone report on the many lawsuits now pending against him. Trump is no better than Bernie Maddow, hes has con people for years and he need to be in prison. He has always been a bully.
What kind of unbiased "reporter" would say that he was digging into Trump's past and in the next breathe say things are popping up on Trump's past? Don't pretend to be a reporter and use your platform to manipulate the truth. Trump is not my favorite person, but he at least seems to love America instead of the gays and unions which our present Prez seems to bow to so often....
I like that you said you need to present what you find in your research. Good, but what about those problems and what has happened since president Obama was elected. No one talks out of both sides of his mouth more than he does. He says one thing on the campaign (he always seems to be campaigning), and says the opposite as President and with his actions. You need to hold all double-speak politician's feet to the fire. They all say whatever they have to in order to be elected.
Details? I love how Obama haters just make empty statements without backing them up with facts.
He is popular because he doesn't act like a politician.....he says what he wants and you can take it or leave it, and he doesn't back down....he says what he believes and stands up to the mealymouthed politicians and so called reporters.
I'm so tired of seeing and hearing this blowhard. He's a narcissistic, egotistical maniac. How can anyone with a brain take him seriously. This whole issue about President Obama and the birth certificate thing is a joke; it's all about publicity. With all the tall tales he tells (LIES) he could never be president, that's not to say that all our presidents have been totally honest, but most of the lies they've told have come out later on. This guy's whole life is one big LIE!!
Donald, go back to your reality show. Maybe you should start another TV show, a series where you could star as the president, because that's as close as you'll ever get to the White House.
I agree with those comments.
Everyone keeps talking about income tax. The solution is to do away with the IRS and start taxing consumption rather than insanely taxing production. We can change the rules. They are our rules. We created an evil monster and it's time for it to die. Now is the time for a value added sales tax. Gone, the IRS, gone all the tax attorneys, etc.
There's more. A solution to health care costs would be for every large company to hire their own doctors and nurses and put clinics in the buildings where they work.. Small businesses could co-op to hire health care providers. Then you buy major medical for hospitilization which is very inexpensive. As far as specialists, contract individually. It takes the middle man out of the loop, meaning the most evil corporations in the world, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, et. al. All of this is well spelled out in a book RANTINGS OF AN INSOMNIAC, OR I WISH JESUS HAD'N'T SAID THAT.
P.T. Barnum said, "There is a sucker born every minute." Anyone who believes Donald Trump should be president fits the description of a sucker!!!!
These discrepancies... they are huGE!!
It's an auto-monitoring computer. Probably the same Disqus one that Fox and every other site is using these days.
No one's frightened of Mike L's opinion. It just trips the computers killfile.
$360 M / 75 Building Lots = $4.8 M for each lot. This resonably estimated figure does NOT include the additional asset value of the 6 finished mansions, particularly the 3 that remain unsold. So in essence, the value per vacant lot would be even less than $4.8 M. Any infrastructure inclusions such as roads, curbs, sidewalks, fire hydrants, sewers, utilities, etc. would increase the property value. $360 M sounds like fair market value for ocean-front, developed up-scale residential and golf course, California real estate.
Spitzer and Toobin are morons who obviously have no understanding of property valuation. The figure of $360 M in property value is compilied from all 75 lots, not just the 3 lots on which 3 mansions where sold, as they contend in the video of Spitzer's program. Additionally, even after Trump gave a very reasonable explaination of the two different banks financial requirements, Spitzer did not understand and continued to ineptly ramble on. Next time they want to discredit someone, they need to choose a topic they have enough intellect to defend.
No wonder our country is in such financial difficulty. Using your logic and Donald Trumps logic to inflate the value of property is wishful thinking. Property has no value at all unless there is a willing buyer, with the money to pay the seller the asking price.
I recently checked on a house my grandparents purchased in west LA in 1951 for $10,100 (and later sold for $23k). The current valuation of the house is $771,000 for a 3 bdrm one bath 1100 sq foot house built in 1947. That house has no real value until a sucker comes along and buys it for the asking price. Its still a $10,000 house without someone who buys into the fantasy that the house is worth the money.
Until then, the current owner, like Donald Trump, hopes and prays that PT Barnum was right..........."There's a sucker born every minute"
If Trump is basing his wealth on his ability to over inflate his holdings, then borrow to build more, he's building a pyramid of cards, that routinely collapses of its own weight. His history of bankruptcy only proves it.
I am insulted by Toobin's assertment that one is either irrational, crazy, or bigoted if they don't believe that Obama was born in Hawaii. He specifically states that any notion less is based on a lie. Well, Toobin, you idiot – show us your facts or proof. Here's your chance. Back up what you say. The fact that you can't makes what you said pretty stupid. You expect us to be like ostriches with our heads in the sand and believe blindly in something that has yet to be proven. You may want to blindly believe, but until there is actual proof by evidence, there will be many God fearing, hard-working, tax paying, decent Americans who are NONE of the above, believeing otherwise.
Spitzer. D. Trump is a ruthless man who lacks common sense. I am glad that you and the Tea Party are his buddies.
Why do we need two of the same????????
1. Certificate of Live Birth
2. Birth Certificate
Budget Cut???????? And why aren't all States under the same Government required the same???????
Well *someone* needs to have some economic sense, and it sure isn't Obama or any of the republicans. I'm not crazy about Trump, but Obama squandered a trillion dollars that barely stimulated the economy. With that kind of money the Administration should have been able to do much better.
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